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In Topic: Israel and Iran
03 March 2026 - 04:07 PM
QuickTidal, on 03 March 2026 - 01:59 PM, said:
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
I really don’t understand some of these posts.
1. Israel is not going to be a pariah state once the “genocide in Gaza” is over. Assuming there was a genocide in the first place, there is now a ceasefire, so the “genocide” is over.
Putting genocide in scare quotes (fucking twice) doesn't mean it's not happening. I would enjoy an explanation on how a completely surrounded plot of land (by air, land, and sea) and its indigenous population...getting flattened by the surrounding nation with the only escape being "Well go become a refugee elsewhere if you don't like getting bombed in your homeland"...is somehow NOT a genocide.
The woman who looked after my son when he was young is a Palestinian refugee whose grandparents had to leave their homes when she was a child, and still have their key...she cannot ever go home to the place of her birth, and she cried ever day she heard the news for years...I wear my Keffiyeh out in public for her.
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
The Indian Prime Minister just travelled to Israel to create a massive deal with them.
Sorry, we're holding up Modi as some bastion of trade and non-evil? LOL. My PM just made a deal with him too, I expect it only to last as long as Modi considers it politically expedient.
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
At the same time that was happening, the Israeli President went to Ethiopia to bolster ties there.
A single African nation with 132k people? What a huge deal.
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
This is literally just one country in the Middle East firing missiles against a plethora of other countries in the Middle East and Western bases.
Wild you leave out the part where they were attacked. Like Israel and the US just got strategically hit by Iran out of the blue...like..LOL
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
3. There is so much vitriol here against Trump
The guy who ripped up the peace agreement and nuclear armistice that the USA had with Iran and they were abiding that Obama negotiated? Wild, I wonder why there would be vitriol towards him...nevermind he's mentioned over 1million times in the unreacted E files...and the 84 gajillion racist things he's done, or ICE or anything else. Quite frankly I'm not sure we're hard ENOUGH on Trump here.
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
and Netanyahu
This man is one of the most evil men to ever walk the planet. The sooner he's arrested for his war crimes the better. Israel has a long road to walk to get back to the global community good graces, and the very beginning of that road is to charge and imprison Netanyahu and his entire cabinet. I don't doubt there are decent people in Israel, but extremists like Bibi need to be out of power. This man and his mentor (Sharon) are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people over decades. Like crack a book, any book that features the man, start with "100 years of War on Palestine" by American scholar Rashid Khalidi, the stories he tells about Netanyahu as a young man (his father was on the UN security council) would not only curl your toes, but would/should enrage you.
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
but barely any against a regime that killed thousands of its own citizens, treats women as second class citizens, etc. and is really just deplorable.
There is a BIG difference between finding the Iranian regime terrible and thinking it's therefore perfectly fine for the US to play interventionist world police and attack them without congressional approval, or the general approval of the world willy nilly. The Negotiations as of Last Friday as they stood were that Iran was going to HAND over every bit of remaining fissionable material to the USA...and Netanyahu and Trump attacked them anyways. I don't think anyone here is advocating that the Ayatollah and his regime are good...but that the US only does regime change for personal wealth.
It's not even that hard to see the progression:
Mosaddegh is democratically elected by Iran in 1952, and starts to ask questions about BP oil interests in Iran and the possibility that they were thieving oil profits from the Iranian people, so the US had him unseated and regime changed with the supposed royal family of the Shahs, and 4 successive Shah's then ruled as puppets for America(s oil interests)....and every one eventually died in exile...the last of which was unseated in the coup that resulted in the current islamic regime...So when we blame the USA it's because this all tracks back to the USA not wanting Iranian people to be in control of their own oil...
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
I mean, really? Trump and Netanyahu are worse? I’m not for a second calling either of them saints (far from it), but goodness me.
I'd love for you to point out where anyone said worse...most of us just said not better, because the US interests are not about the Iranian people...like we're going to pretend that the guy who shits all over protestors in the US is somehow freeing protesting Iranians from their govt for altruistic reasons? LMAO, you don't believe that do you?
the broken, on 03 March 2026 - 10:36 AM, said:
Re first genocide of internet age... Rohingya? Uyghurs? Falun Gong? Maybe US in Afghanistan, since everything done in Gaza also happened there?
None of those situations are the same though. None of those are trapped by land, sea, and air in a "you will be killed unless you leave your homeland become refugees"...Gaza is special in that regard. I don't know that anyone is suggesting other genocides are not taking place. I mean, there's a reason the Palestinian struggle is over 100 years old by this point...the same cannot be said for those other instances.
the broken, on 03 March 2026 - 10:36 AM, said:
Re regime change, East Germany went ok, and a lot the post Soviet states, assuming we exclude the WW2 stuff. I've heard arguments for Grenada and Panama going ok, and Venezuela hasn't collapsed into anarchy yet. Granted the odds are against things going well.
So out of 120 regime changes by the USA you had to not only reach to WWII/postWWII which was NOT the USA but a coalition of nations...and "I heard arguments about Grenada and Panama" and "I think Venezuela has not collapsed into anarchy yet"
Not a flex dude. US Regime change by and large has gone poorly for most nations it was done to.
Putting “genocide” in quotes isn’t me denying anyone’s suffering. For me, things like coordinated polio vaccination campaigns, or the fact that ceasefire arrangements have existed at all (however fragile), make it hard to see clear intent to destroy a population.
On Israel being a “pariah state”- whatever one thinks of its policies, that doesn’t match reality. Israel has strong relationships with India, a major power, and with countries in Africa including Ethiopia, which has a population of over 100 million - this doesn’t make Israel isolated.
On WW3 - I never said Israel, the US or other countries in the Middle East were attacked “out of the blue”. My point to the individual who said it was just that calling this World War Three isn’t correct - this is a regional conflict involving one country against multiple others.
On Iran - Iran chants “death to America” - difficult to have diplomacy with a country that says this.
Also I never said anyone here claimed the US or Israel are worse than Iran. I said there seems to be far more anger directed at the US and Israel than Iran.
Also It’s not a metaphorical ceasefire — there are formal agreements between Israel and Hamas to stop fighting. -
In Topic: Israel and Iran
03 March 2026 - 03:16 PM
amphibian, on 03 March 2026 - 01:24 PM, said:
Planck, on 03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM, said:
I really don’t understand some of these posts.
1. Israel is not going to be a pariah state once the “genocide in Gaza” is over. Assuming there was a genocide in the first place, there is now a ceasefire, so the “genocide” is over. The Indian Prime Minister just travelled to Israel to create a massive deal with them. At the same time that was happening, the Israeli President went to Ethiopia to bolster ties there.
2. This is not World War Three. This is literally just one country in the Middle East firing missiles against a plethora of other countries in the Middle East and Western bases.
3. There is so much vitriol here against Trump and Netanyahu, but barely any against a regime that killed thousands of its own citizens, treats women as second class citizens, etc. and is really just deplorable. I mean, really? Trump and Netanyahu are worse? I’m not for a second calling either of them saints (far from it), but goodness me.
There has not been a stoppage of violence - a blockade has been put on and food/gas will not reach Gaza. The genocide continues. It also doesn't go away once violence is stopped either. The effects continue on for generations.
If you don't quantify what is happening in Gaza when the UN Committee focused on determining that did (https://www.ohchr.or...ommission-finds), you have an ideological position that is probably a bit offset from reality here.
One can simultaneously say the government of Iran has been a particular blend of religious extremism, brutal control, anti-Semitic, anti-peace, and stupidity and not want the members of that government to be murdered indiscriminately alongside civilians by a stupid, corrupt, and incompetent US federal administration.
The people of Iran are a combination of mourning and celebrating the deaths of the top government people, while also likely all wanting the US and Israelis to stop bombing them and hurting people. Military force alone doesn't put in a democratic government that's good. This path doesn't lead to good things.
We’re using different definitions of ‘ceasefire’ - I’m using a diplomatic/military one, not a moral end-state.
I also don’t see how diplomacy is possible with a government that openly chants ‘death to America’.
Hope I’ve done this quote thing right! -
In Topic: Israel and Iran
03 March 2026 - 06:20 AM
I really don’t understand some of these posts.
1. Israel is not going to be a pariah state once the “genocide in Gaza” is over. Assuming there was a genocide in the first place, there is now a ceasefire, so the “genocide” is over. The Indian Prime Minister just travelled to Israel to create a massive deal with them. At the same time that was happening, the Israeli President went to Ethiopia to bolster ties there.
2. This is not World War Three. This is literally just one country in the Middle East firing missiles against a plethora of other countries in the Middle East and Western bases.
3. There is so much vitriol here against Trump and Netanyahu, but barely any against a regime that killed thousands of its own citizens, treats women as second class citizens, etc. and is really just deplorable. I mean, really? Trump and Netanyahu are worse? I’m not for a second calling either of them saints (far from it), but goodness me. -
In Topic: Israel and Iran
02 March 2026 - 02:26 PM
There is a lot of confusion around the missile attack on the Iranian girl school - could have been an Iranian misfire.
Whatever the case may be, it’s horrific.
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