[Carnifex]

Trull said:

oh ya, and besides hes supposedly a warlock, so technically not a mage.

I don't get the distinction you're trying to make. Mosag wasn't a priest; the Edur didn't have an active god to pray to until Mosag got involved with the CG. We know that he's feared as a KE user in MT and keeps the Kris'nan close. I don't have the books with me, but IIRC it's implied in MT that he took the chiefs' sons by force (or as hostages) and basically dominated them into becoming Kris'nan.

He (or SE) probably chose the title 'Warlock King' because it sounded better than 'Mage King'. Mosag liked drama.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Well warlock means you use spirits to do magic like...like Nil and Nether. So he doesn't use warrens. Naturally Mosag use the shadow siprits so he must use KE(or KG as they are TA never understood that:confused:). But we said no not-humans so Mosag is out anyway:)

[Trull's son]

Good point, Mosag liked being epic. It's when he started using the CG power that made me rank him as some kind of priest or cleric.

[Ayrin]

I guess there are a gazillion threads about this, but why are you so certain there is a real difference between a mage and a priest?

And also, are you sure there is a real difference between warlock/witch and mage? Aren't Sormo, Nil and Nether using spirits and stuff because the Warrens are fouled during the chain of dogs?

[Pig Iron]

QB could probably take anyone. Raw power + smarts + connections is hard to beat. Although we're talking Erikson, who learnt from Cook - he could be killed off by a drunken soldier in a brawl in some tavern or by tripping over his shoelaces (OK maybe more Cook's style).

[Aptorian]

Well, the RotCG chapter tells us that:

Spoiler

Cowl is at least as sneaky and deadly as Quick. The guy cheats!

[Cain]

I think between Q-B who I love, dont get me wrong, and Tayschrenn it would be a very very interesting battle indeed. But in the end I would have to give the fight Tayschrenn

Let me back that up. Take Gardens of the Moon for instance. If you remember in the beginning when the mages of the empire were leading a combined assault on moonspawn Taychrenn sat there and single handedly deflected Anomandaris's magical assault, protected himself from it, AND deflected it, or used some of his own magical energy, (I forgot which) at the other mages to his right, while ALSO directing some of his power at Moonspawn and Rake himself. Which says ALOT for him as Rake is supposed to be this God-like Soletaken Ascendant with tremendous Magical power.

*Edit: Well...I guess he never blew back Icarium in his rage numerous times like QB did either...but hell we are talking about pure magical energy..but.... if he got squirrely with his warrens.........damn i dont know.. we really just will never know untill we see them face-off. : P

[Silencer]

Don't forget - Rake wasn't really attacking Tay all that much - he was using indirect blasts of energy to try and kill too many soldiers and make Tay back off.
He was also having to fight 4 High Mages and a 3-person Mage Cadre (whcih included Tattersail, who is supposedly good enough to be a HM). Not too mention, Tattersail could see Rake's aura of power and was awed - she never made a comment on Tay's.

I think it would be a close thing, but QB currently holds the track-record for defeating major people: Icarium, Silchas Ruin, Menandore+Sheltatha+Sukul in one go, and bashing Raest pretty badly.
In fact, Raest is the only other character (barring Killy, I suppose) that we have seen take on dragons and win. That puts QB up there.

[Aptorian]

Actually in Rakes defense. He says something in the lines of Tay being to well warded to be able to take out and he had to move Moons Spawn as it was taking far too much damage.

Tay was himself preoccupied taking out Nightchill.

[Silencer]

Yes, but the reason Tay was too well warded to take out was because there were other targets he had to defend against - as you say, he retreated to protect the Moon and his people. It had nothing to do with Tay being more than his match one-on-one.
But, as has been said many times, we won't know until they go head-to-head, or until they do something the same.

[Abyss]

Silencer;308764 said:

... QB currently holds the track-record for defeating major people: Icarium, Silchas Ruin, Menandore+Sheltatha+Sukul in one go, and bashing Raest pretty badly.
In fact, Raest is the only other character (barring Killy, I suppose) that we have seen take on dragons and win. That puts QB up there.

Not quite - i fully agree he slapped down the Three Sisters, but...

Icarium kept coming, he had help with Silch and Raest (and even there neither was fully taken out) and if the 3 Sisters hadn't started fighting amongst themselves, QB and Hedge may have had more of a fight on their hands.

Now that said, it doesn't look like there are many characters who could have done better, but none of those are a clean 'let's you and him fight' win.

- Abyss, not detracting from QB's innate awesomeness, even so...

[The Archivist]

Abyss ... I think your list is the most relevent .... well thought out ... rankings are too subjective here... so why include them ... some observations, tho

L'oric ... good spot on Kruppe ... the gent ate a blow from the most powerful weapon around (possible exception of Dragnipur) and did not flinch...if he is human and not an ascendant ... wow

... second ... if you include sneakiness, power and reputation

... I would think you would have to include Dessimbalackis ... the First Human Emperor ... from what we know of the guy ... he was damn scary... and deserving to be on the list...

The only human person we know of who can ascend ordinary folk ... Kimloc ... umm ... anyone done anything more impressive then ascend an entire battalion? *blinks* Anyone? *come on don't be shy ... raise your hands* ANYONE??!!

Honestly, can we imagine anyone else doing that ... most of the people on this list could not ascend themselves much less a large group of other people.

*ponders again* Kruppe ... yeah ... maybe, Kruppe ... if he could confuse the hell out of them by doing it ... ah, heck ... I am just dreaming ... *stops dead and shakes his fist at a rotund patron* damn you, Kruppe ... stop that ... and return that first edition of the History of the Fugger family .... (personal aside: Steven, you old rascal ... thought none of us would get the wily use of the Krupp name ...)

[Aptorian]

I think there's still something of a mystery surrounding the cults and priests worship of their gods.

Priests of shadow would logically both be able to draw upon Shadowthrone and the warren of shadow itself.

But what about cults and gods like D'rek and Fener. We've heard that these may have personal warrens, but these do not seem like things that a mage could access like Shadow or Ruse.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Well I think that those cults can use their god's power to access another warren like Mammot using D'riss or Banaschar using Mockra

[Abyss]

And you're correct but not going far enuf - using the easiest example, as i see it, a priest calling on Shadowthrone (ie: Rath' ST) is accessing Meanas the same way a mage whose warren is Meanas is doing so.

AND, just to complicate matters, some Shadow priests will also be mages with the natural talent to access Meanas

Coming at it from another angle, Edur women who were witches could access Kurald Emurlahn - this was a natural talent, 2/3 of male Edur had it too (tho not Fear, Rhulad or Trull) the same as. Since they had enslaved all those Andii souls, it appears that the Letheri Edur could acess Kurald Galain too. AND the Krisnan were using chaos, via their link with the Crip God.

Pust has access to Thyr, Mokra, Meanas AND Rashan. He's a High priest of Shadow, possibly designated Magi in the HHS, yet in TB he describses himself as a high mage. Now, in this particular case we could say those four warrens are all related, but even so, is Pust a mage, or a priest? And my response is, he's both.

My point being natural talent and godly affinity and not exclusive. Banaschar had access to D'riss because he had access to D'rek, but his access to Mokra may have been natural talent, AND/OR a gift from his god.

- Abyss, naturally talented, naturally.


The fundamental difference

[Silencer]

I get the feeling that becoming a priest is just another way to access magic - you simply have to rely on your god instead of yourself.
What I want to know is the difference between Pust, who is a High Priest of SHADOW, and Banaschar, who is a High Priest of D'REK - one's a person, one's a thing.
This could be the crucial difference here, in that Pust is a normal mage dedicated to Shadow, whereas Banaschar is give access to D'rek's warren via his preisthood.
Of course, it could just be that Pust has access to more power through ST, since he technically worships him. So I agree with Abyss' - but while the two aren't mutually exclusive, how do we define the difference?

[Aptorian]

Well Banaschar is again a special case because he seems to be carrying his god inside him in the form of intestinal worms.

[Abyss]

Aptorian;323609 said:

Well Banaschar is again a special case because he seems to be carrying his god inside him in the form of intestinal worms.

I was wondering about that. Are we sure it's not just gas?

- Abyss, ...what?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I wonder what will happen to him. Will his intestine rot when D'rek will be too powerful to be contained in his body?