Malazan Empire: Most tragic character - Malazan Empire

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Most tragic character

#21 User is offline   Ain't_It_Just_ 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:54 AM

Squint. Think about it...

But seriously, Beak. Made me cry a bit as well, just how simple his feelings were for his friends. Heart-touching. Some people have wondered if beak saving the marines but dying in the process was worth it. Even if it wasn't, he wouldn't have cared. They were his friends.

:)

Trull Sengar. How he tried to save the Edur, his family, his BROTHER. To the end, he didn't give up on them. Then, just when his exile was revoked, his wife returned to him and losing Fear AND Onrack.... he dies. Damn you, SE....

Has anyone realised? There are no more Sengars now.... :D
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#22 User is offline   Lisheo 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:58 AM

I loved Beak. The little paragraphs where with his PoV during the Letheras Ritual Spell thing really did break my heart.
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#23 User is offline   Khellendros 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 06:41 PM

I suspect that the Crippled God will get my vote as the most tragic character in the final book :)
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#24 User is offline   Ammanas 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:02 PM

How bout Kettle? Or do most feel she was just a tool?
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#25 User is offline   Possum 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:17 PM

Am i the only one that was upset when Whiskeyjack died then.. He was worshipped by his troops and an icon in his own right within the empire only to then die defending Silverfox after Tay/Korlat get blasted in the face to then get killed because of a shattered leg which in all honesty was his own fault, i do remember re reading that scene a few times just to be sure and to find a loophole that he may have ascended :) upsetting stuff to not find one.

Beak/Trull too for the many reasons already given. Although i genuinely did have a lump in my throat when reading Beaks last moments.
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#26 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:18 PM

there was so little info on her and she was pretty freaky to begin with. To be honest Erikson didn't manage to convince me of it being a sad death, she was a monster in a childs body
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#27 User is offline   Nequam 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 09:36 PM

Khellendros;276468 said:

Well, this series is really all about tragedy, so there's a lot to choose from there. But let's see, who would be my most tragical of tragic characters? Ok:

GotM:

Lorn (the book showed her losing any semblance of being her own person, making her own decisions, and then dying a senseless death at the whim of the gods)

DG:

Felisin (caught in something unasked for and which she didn't fully comprehend, her sister's 'betrayal' leaving her scarred for the rest of her short existence and unable to trust anyone - including the people who had a chance to save her)

MoI:

Hmm, surprisingly this is a tough one. Itkovian isn't tragic in the strict sense, as he takes on his burden willingly. A controversial choice might be Pannion - after all - he has spent an eternity of eternities being tortured inside a rent, but he does have a fairly happy ending on the other hand. I guess then it would have to be Toc the Younger - caught up in things which are well over his head, going through the most excruciating torture ever, and finally sacrficing himself for a wolf...albeit a wolf god...and he does get a new body :)

HoC:

Felisin cont. - So, what's up with her now? Ah, possessed by an insane god, everyone around her scheming her demise and then...killed by her own sister. Gosh darn.

MT:

Another great one for tragedy - strong arguments could be put in place for the entire Sengar clan, and perhaps Hannan Mosag too (after all, he was just trying to protect his people, and look where that ended up). But, of course, it would have to be Trull Sengar - a single voice of reason to whom no one listens, having to watch his entire family and people tear itself apart even as they become the thing they most despise, and after all that, being left alone with the most impossible of choices - kill your own brother, or keep him in agony for his whole existence.

tBH - Another controversial choice for this might be Taralack Veed. Yes, he's nasty and up to no good, but what made him that way? Tragic upbringing/events amongst his clan. And then at the end he realises the foolishness of what he's seeking to unleash, but feels helpless to do anything about it. The only chance for his life to continue is to keep himself around Icarium - the guy who's also most likely to get him killed. A less controversial choice might be Heboric - a pretty vague quest to rid himself of the jade, ending with him feeling the pain of thousands upon thousands of souls. Poor sod, he just wanted to be a historian :D But I think I would have to go with Pearl - ironically, after hiding knowledge from Tavore, his own demise came from his love for his partner in that secret whom he wrongly thought dead. Thinking no good of anyone anymore, he saw power as head of the Claw as his only way to fix the faults he saw in everyone else. The tragedy being that Lostara Yil was oh so very alive still, quasi-Romeo and Juliet.

RG - And another maelstrom of tragicality. One could put up the whole of Fear Sengar's and Silchas Ruin's group as an gestalt tragic whole. I think, in the end, even with Beak (who, let's face it, does have a happy ending) and Toc 'call me Toc the Unlucky', it would have to be Rhulad Sengar for me. A slave to his desires and to his evil Chancellor, a man to whom dying became a drug, losing his very self to the sword and the madness. It's Rhulad's POV's that do it for me - we get to see an Edur who is really little more than a child, afraid and very very alone, feeling betrayed by his closest kin in a Felisin-like manner and at the same time consumed by the overwhelming guilt he feels over their fates. Then there were all the opportunities to save him that came to naught - Udinaas, Nisall, Tomad and Uruth, and Bruthen Trana. And then the final blow, an impossible choice much like Trull's earlier in the series - pick up the sword and save your brother (little knowing he's already gone), but become the King in Chains once again, or refuse and gain some salvation for your soul, but possibly letting your brother die. The fact that he tries to regain the sword once again shows both that this was a man who had not forgotten how to love and care, and at the same time how very tragically wrong all his choices always were.


I agree on basically everything you said here. You're so totally getting rep from me.

Well that's it. All of those people are who I thought were the most tragic.
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#28 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 09:39 PM

Tool arriving just in time to find Toc defaced body (heehee, see what i did there?) absolutely wrecked me. I lean towards Tool being the tragic figure in that scene - the whole 'i travelled all this way to surprise him and find out he's dead and now holy crap he's alive only he's not and i'm about 45 seconds too late to save him' thing - tho Toc, being that close to salvation and not knowing it, is close. But Tool's grief was just shattering.

Kettle - she was a sympathetic character in MT, and early in RG we see Silch's apparent rage at her being raped by the slavers which adds an element to her, in that she went from an avenging ascendent of sorts to a victim, but then she really fades out as a character (exception being an amazing-but-almost-lost-in-the-rush moment in the finale at the Refugim where she uselessly attacks Wither while he's strangling Udinaas).

I suspect that SE did that deliberately so when Silch ultimately stabs her, it's a tiny bit less horrific than would otherwise be a scene where a hero (using term loosely) takes a child, breaks her on a rock and then stabs her.

The tragedy of Squint is that he knows he did the right thing killing Coltaine but feels awful about it. This was really well shown at the end of DG.

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#29 User is offline   Ammanas 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:05 PM

Aptorian;276880 said:

there was so little info on her and she was pretty freaky to begin with. To be honest Erikson didn't manage to convince me of it being a sad death, she was a monster in a childs body


Well, that's true, she was never gonna be in the swimsuit issue--too bad Mael warned the Tarthenal off her. It would've been funny to see Iron Bars and Kettle aka Forkrul Assail kicking their asses.
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#30 User is offline   Khellendros 

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:02 PM

Thanks Nequam, glad you liked my choices :)
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#31 User is offline   Zorland 

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 03:59 AM

I have just been re-reading MoI, and it has reminded me how horrific Toc's life has been.

Quote

"Break! Yes, break into pieces! But I won't kill you, no, not yet, not for a long, long time! Oh, look at you writhe, but what do you know of true pain, mortal? Nothing. I will show you, Toc the Younger."


The agony clutching him did not cease, yet drew no tighter. His gasps echoed dully in heavy, stale air. He - he sent me away. My God sent me away. And now I'm truly done. Alone...


Broken ribs ground and tore in Toc's chest. His skin was slippery with blood, yet whatever healing sorcery the Seer had gifted to him persisted, slowly mending, knitting only to have the bones break yet again within the savage embrace of the creature that now held him.
...
He had no breath with which to scream, yet the arms holding him felt his shudder, and squeezed tighter.
Soft whimpers filled the chamber, the twin voices of toc and his captor.



But everyone seems to have mentioned Toc. I was going say Tool, but abyss beat me to that one too. The scene in RG where Tool almost finds Toc, only to have him killed is brutal. But, Tool has some moments in MoI too.

Quote


"What is it the wolf wants of you T'lan Imass?
The warrior cocked his head. "An end to her loneliness"
"Have you - have you given answer?"
Tool turned away, dropping the hares to the ground. His voice when he spoke shocked the scout with it's raw mournfulness. "I can do nothing for her."
The cold, lifeless tone was gone and for the first time Toc saw something of what hid behind that deathly, dessicated visage.


He's a much deeper thinker than his skeletal archetype.

I disagree that Beak was a tragic character. In his past, some things went wrong. And he's a little slow, but everything we saw of him was positive. He got to use his skills, he got to have friends, he even got to spend time with a woman. He died to save his friends and he succeed. Then Hood, himself, came to take him, and allowed him to help his brother. I think he has one of the happiest story arcs.
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#32 User is offline   pastures 

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 05:54 AM

Tavore.

I couldnt care less if someone died tragically. What is most tragic is if you hurt the people you love. Loss is tragic. But not as tragic as when you are the cause of the loss, especially through betrayal.

I dont count Squint as he did what he had to do. He didn't hurt Coltaine, he only killed him. Tavore on the other hand, did much more (albeit indirectly) than kill Felisin...
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#33 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 05:10 PM

Zorland;277055 said:

...I disagree that Beak was a tragic character. In his past, some things went wrong....I think he has one of the happiest story arcs.



The scene where he internal monologues about discussing the candles with other mages, and how some of them would hug him and others would cry and walk away, was heart-breaking.

He gets a satisfying ending, but i wouldn't say it was happy.

- Abyss, ......waaaaaahhhhhh *sniff* sorry, moving on....
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#34 User is offline   Gozer 

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 05:32 PM

Duiker would be up there. I'm sure his life was lovely before the Chain of Dogs, but it kind of went down hill from then on. This is true for all involved in the CoD's but as most of this event was described through Duiker's eyes, i'm choosing him. That part of his life was truly tragic. To be witness to all that happened and then have to stand and watch 10000 soldiers be crucified, and then be crucified yourself is pretty tragic.
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#35 User is offline   Zorland 

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 11:31 PM

Abyss: I re-read Beaks final moments after your comments because it really had been a while since I'd read BH (750-757). I had forgotten how poignant it was.

I will continue to claim that Beak died happy:

Quote

Survival, he realized, could only be found through purity. Of his love for them all - how so many of them had smiled at him, laughed with him. How hands clapped him on the shoulder and even, now and then, tussled his hair.
He would have liked to see the captain one last time, and maybe even kiss her. On the cheek, although of course he would have liked something far more...brave. But he was Beak, after all, and he could hold on to but one thing at a time
...
but he would not let go. Not of his brothers and sisters. The ones he so loved.
My friends.


But I see that I had forgotten how the other characters view his death as tragic.

Quote

In horror, Faradan Sort found herself staring at a collapsed jumble of ashes and scorched bone. But no, there was a pattern within that, a configuration, if she could but focus through the tears.
Oh. The bones of the arms seemed to be hugging the knees, the crumpled skull settled on them.
Like a child hiding in a closet, a child seeking to make himself small, so small...
Beak. Gods below...Beak.

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#36 User is offline   Ain't_It_Just_ 

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:26 AM

Zorland;277500 said:

Abyss: I re-read Beaks final moments after your comments because it really had been a while since I'd read BH (750-757). I had forgotten how poignant it was.

I will continue to claim that Beak died happy:


But I see that I had forgotten how the other characters view his death as tragic.


:D :p :p :D :o

R.I.P. Beak. May your candle shine.
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#37 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:58 AM

Trull is a pretty tragic character, but I felt far more for his widow when he was killed out of hand (not so good with names and my book is at home home) She'd finally gotten past hull and found happiness, only to have it ripped away so quickly again

Whiskeyjacks Tiste Andii Lover (again with my torrid memory for names) again its the widow scenario, especially knowing that WJ was too stubborn to have his leg healed, and that Kallor had been their untrust worthy ally for some time.

But the outright winner for me is Duiker, to see Coltaine from the walls of Aren and be helpless to save him, then be crucified after triumping over Mallick Rell, now that hes alive again in a shambolic form, all that he knows, all his memories are being destryoed by the empress and the pogrom on the wickans
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#38 User is offline   Toblakai 

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 06:51 PM

trag·e·dy /ˈtrædʒɪdi/ [traj-i-dee]
–noun, plural -dies. 1. a dramatic composition, often in verse, dealing with a serious or somber theme, typically that of a great person destined through a flaw of character or conflict with some overpowering force, as fate or society(or the intervention of some horrifically malign entity), to downfall or destruction.
(Italics my own)
trag·ic /ˈtrædʒɪk/ [traj-ik]
–adjective 1. characteristic or suggestive of tragedy


As little as I was able to sympathize with him, Rhulad Sengar seems to me to be the best fit for 'tragic' as far as the definition goes. He was an asinine young man who wanted only to be respected by his brothers/father/tribe. Instead he found only pain, isolation, madness and death.

I was still glad to see him die.
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#39 User is offline   Dancer+ 

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:00 PM

Macros;277681 said:

Trull is a pretty tragic character, but I felt far more for his widow when he was killed out of hand (not so good with names and my book is at home home) She'd finally gotten past hull and found happiness, only to have it ripped away so quickly again

Whiskeyjacks Tiste Andii Lover (again with my torrid memory for names) again its the widow scenario, especially knowing that WJ was too stubborn to have his leg healed, and that Kallor had been their untrust worthy ally for some time.


Whiskeyjack wasn't too stubborn - Hood played a part in this.

I agree with the whole widow theme to a certain extent. Both Seran Pedac and the Tiste Andii in general seemed to have sombre existances.
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#40 User is offline   Ain't_It_Just_ 

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 11:40 PM

Dancer;278572 said:

Whiskeyjack wasn't too stubborn - Hood played a part in this.

I agree with the whole widow theme to a certain extent. Both Seran Pedac and the Tiste Andii in general seemed to have sombre existances.


You know what pisses me off? How most of the tragedies could have been avoided.

*If Admiral Nok had defied Pormqual/if Pormqual hadn't been such a wuss: Coltaine and the 7th would still be alive. Easy things to do.

*If WJ had just gotten his leg fixed, or at least stabilised so it wouldn't break: He'd still be alive.

*If Sirryn Kanar had been killed/taken a wrong turn to the Domicile: Trull would still be alive.

And god knows what else.
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