Malazan Empire: Why do these Assholes keep shooting up our colleges?! - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 6 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Why do these Assholes keep shooting up our colleges?!

#61 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 23 February 2008 - 04:49 AM

amphibian;262485 said:

There are quite a few things wrong with your post. Semi-automatics have been heavily restricted for a while now; in most states, if not all, they're restricted to the point where only law enforcement or military can buy them these days.

If someone owns multiple weapons, it's usually because they use them for different tasks (shotgun for ducks, rifle for deer, bigger rifle for moose etc.) or collect them. I hesitate to speculate as to the psychological reasons why they make that choice to own several weapons.

Concealed weapons carriers usually have to go through a LOT more hurdles than regular gun buyers. I'd say the likelihood of you actually having a reason to worry about someone with a legit concealed carry permit is very, very low.

Most gun deaths come from straight murders. Most murderers act upon people they know and most often, it's a really ill advised form of dispute resolution.

Yeah, I see that guns are a part of school shootings, but I don't think it's the primary cause.


Really? Where do you live? I grew up in Georgia. I had SEVERAL close friends whose father's owned semi-automatic weaponry. One had an ELEPHANT GUN, which was illegal at the time. I was considered an oddball growing up because my family owned ZERO guns.

I think you are a little naive in that you believe that by something being illegal....or "harder to get" makes it less likely. Wrong. Too many people are finding loopholes in which they can buy guns. You tell me why someone needs 10 guns. You tell me why we need concealed weaponry. All this is going to accomplish is having more stupid citizens who think they are the law themselves going off with guns literally blazing. I'm not stupid enough to say all guns should be outlawed...but they need to be heavily restricted or monitored...somebody is dropping the ball.

@Illy---Video Games are not the problem at all, I agree.
0

#62 User is offline   Shinrei 

  • charin charin
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 20-February 03

Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:39 PM

Illuyankas;262490 said:

@Shin: I agree with you about the plane accident rate, but how small is a 1 in 10,000 chance to be shot to death? Especially compared to pretty much every European nation.


What kind of "shot to death" does this statistic cover? I mean, if I'm a hunter (I'm not) I'm more likely to get shot. If I live in a high crime/drug dealing area of a big city (I don't), I'm more likely to get shot.


The statistic I need to see is my chances of dying in a random shootup by a crazy person. The odds of this have to be ridiculously small.
You’ve never heard of the Silanda? … It’s the ship that made the Warren of Telas run in less than 12 parsecs.
0

#63 User is offline   Illuyankas 

  • Retro Classic
  • Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
  • Posts: 7,254
  • Joined: 28-September 04
  • Will cluck you up

Posted 24 February 2008 - 12:26 AM

This was US-wide for 2004, and annoyingly incorrect as it included all gun-related deaths for that year, including police shootings and suicides (which could probably count for the deaths from gun availablity) and averaged 81 a day. A more accurate figure would be 1 in 20,000 or so.

It didn't divide up death by guns into catagories of murder and accidental manslaughter either, unfortunately. Feel free to find a better source first if you like.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
0

#64 User is offline   Silencer 

  • Manipulating Special Data
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 5,683
  • Joined: 07-July 07
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Malazan Book of the Fallen series.
    Computer Game Design.
    Programming.

Posted 24 February 2008 - 01:04 AM

Note to the guy who said people (kids) getting access to restricted media - the point is it is restricted. I for one don't think that most people +/- about 3 years of the age limit will actually think that it's OK to go and kill people. If a parent thinks that their kid might actually believe a VIDEO GAME, they should take the kid to counselling. Games have very little psychological effect IF the person doesn't believe they are real/depict right and wrong.
Like I said in a previous post - if six year olds are getting their hands on R18 games, there is a problem. If a 16 year old is - he would have to ALREADY be messed up to believe it. Therefore: Video games are not the problem.

(My other post is both more coherent and more to-the-point, this one is a tired ramble)
***

Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.

0

#65 User is offline   Lost Marine 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 255
  • Joined: 01-September 07

Posted 24 February 2008 - 04:14 AM

Xander;262368 said:

@Menandore---I agree about the problem being an easy access to guns. What possible need does someone have to need semi-automatic weapons? Or even multiple weapons? So many stupid Americans whine about their "constitutional rights" and bearing arms. Guess what? THAT WAS 232 YEARS AGO!!!! WE WERE AT WAR. I don't have a problem with ownership of a weapon for home protection. But having an arsenal? These people have confidence problems. Now in the state where I'm from (Georgia) they are passing a concealed weapon law where citizens can go around carrying concealed weapons for "protection".

Yeah, that is what we need. Millions of lunatics who think they are mercenaries and bounty hunters and going to save the day.

Idiots.



I fail to understand how someone who might enjoy shooting for sport or collect guns as a hobby (because some are real works or art) points to a lack of confidence. I also don't understand how someone wanting to insure that they have the means to protect themselves means they think they are mercenaries or bounty hunters. If you ever wonder why gun control people never get anywhere it comes down to this same cause, you're essentially saying that everyone who owns a gun is a low self esteem loser who just wants to shoot someone. Which has a tendency to piss people off, and is why gun control topics on forums are pretty always closed. There are millions of Americans who own guns and other then that are no different from anyone else. So they tend to get angry when they're all painted as psychos.

As for the constitutional right and why it still applies. It was intended to leave the people with the option of removing the goverment by force if need be, while this is an option that is very very rarely needed it's still nice to have it around just in case.

(Don't take this the wrong way Xander, I like you, I just feel the need to get this out because I think it's a valid point as to why shit doesn't change.)
0

#66 User is offline   Mezla PigDog 

  • Malazan Yo Yo Champion 2009
  • Group: Mezla's Thought Police
  • Posts: 2,721
  • Joined: 03-September 04

Posted 25 February 2008 - 04:46 PM

Shinrei no Shintai;259724 said:

Also, what interests me is a couple of people have mentioned that where they live only the criminals have guns or you'd have to buy one from a criminal. That just makes me think "Hmm, I wouldn't feel real safe defending my home from an intruder when I can't get a gun and they can." As long as criminals can get a hold of them, why can't also own a firearm to defend myself?


Sorry, this really makes me laugh. The whole concept of "defending my home" is surely something that has been completely fabricated. I don't know if it's an American mentality because of your history but how often does a person have to actively defend their home? Of course, you make sure your doors and windows are locked and you have an alarm and exercise general security precautions and take out insurance, but the chances of actually having to defend the place are minute. And I'm not saying this from middle-class suburbia. I live in an area of the UK with very high gun crime statistics. I've been a victim of crime but I have never seen or heard a gun in my life and am rarely presented with a need to think about their existance.

In western Europe, people can't get hold of guns very easily because nobody has them. If householders decided to arm themselves just because criminals can, then the circulation of guns would increase, more criminals and nutcases would have access to them and we'd have the situation that America has. It's like an arms race instigated by a fear of something that doesn't exist. Once the arms race starts, the perceived fear becomes greater.

If western Europeans don't NEED guns, then neither do Americans. It's simply an issue in America because it involves a right being taken away. Europeans have never had the right, so we don't miss it.

American mentality towards firearms just seem ludicrous from this side of the pond.
Burn rubber =/= warp speed
0

#67 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

  • Outdoor Tractivities !
  • Group: Malazan Artist
  • Posts: 5,341
  • Joined: 28-August 07
  • Location:Fredericton, NB, Canada
  • Interests:beer, party.

Posted 25 February 2008 - 05:12 PM

amphibian;259780 said:

Over the last fifteen years, gun legislation has become increasingly restrictive and it is actually a good deal harder than it used to be to get firearms. Licenses, waiting periods and background checks are now pretty much the norm. Some states are adopting training class requirements.

If the easy availability of guns was the determining factor, why weren't there numerous school and mall shootings in the '60s and '70s? It is straight-up copy-catting. The Columbine massacre burst out into the national media and somehow, it resonated.


That's what I thought about when yet another school shooting was talked about in the news as LEAD story for 2 straight weeks. They show the victims, the families, the analysis, the families, the victims, the victim's friends, the testimonials, the survivors, the families, the victims, the killer's psych profile.....blah blah blah ad nauseum

...until its firmly engrained in every viewer's mind that killing people in a school causes extreme grief for victims and survivors, sick infamy and a kind of glory for the suicidal killer.

Pair that with a damaged or deranged psyche, maybe a person in need of dealing out terminal revenge on some people he/she hates, relatively easy access to guns and possibly a distortion of reality from healthy doses of violent TV and poor parental guidance. Now you have somebody that can flip out and kill a lot of people without anybody really seeing it coming.


==========Response to the problem ===========

I seriously don't think that saying "its too many guns" or "its video games" or "its bad parenting" is correct. Any one may be part of the cause, but removing any one won't completely fix the problem.

1-The deranged psyche point is the hardest one to identify and the hardest to treat in a lot of cases. If you have inattentive parents or a shool loner that doesn't stand out to peers and teachers, there is a really good chance that a "snappable" individual won't be noticed. As a part-solution, it would be extremely helpful if teachers were given (as part of their education) extensive training in identifying psychological problems. It would allow problems to be caught and brought to parents' attention earler and help keep every problem child from being identified as ADD and given medication that doesn't help their true problem.

2- Easy access to guns is definitely a problem as many have pointed out. A gun in a school shooting is useless without a crazy to operate it of course, but the easy access doesn't help. Also, countries with more restrictive firearm laws (japan, uk) with identical or greater population densities and crime levels to the US don't seem to have as frequent mass murder events because the guns just aren't as available. I'm not saying banning or restricting guns will stop the problem, because the black market operates outside the law. It would effectively reduce the number in circulation, require folks to register existing ones and in general make it more difficult to obtain firearms without a black market "hookup".

3-The video games is a tough one to deal with. I mean, I've played violent video games for YEARS, have a very active imagination, and have had absolutely no negative effects from them. I'm sure most of you are the same. There was a really interesting article I read once by a psychologist who specializes in researching the video-game-violence to real-violence transition in children. He studies kids that have violent outbreaks (fights) in school from a scientific point of view, and tries to identify the underlying psychological and physiological causes. He found some really really interesting stuff about how some of the kids had underdeveloped brain activity in decision making centers of the brain, and how these kids just seemed to lack that "reality-check" mechanism that most people have. The check that says what you're seeing or hearing should be compared to your internal database of known "real" things and evaluated before storing it in your memory. Anyway, the point of his reasearch and initial findings was that the statement "violence in the media causes violence in real life" is 100% bullshit in normal people. In people that have chemical imbalances that hamper the "reality check" circuit, violent media can really change the way they view and interact with the world.

4- Probably the hardest thing to deal with of all is the way that school shootings are reported on and represented in the news media. If you've ever watched CNN after one of these events you know just how badly they saturate their airtime with information on the shooting. I know it's a big event and a tragedy and all, and it should be reported on for documentation and just to let everybody know. Showing the grief and victims and parents and shooter on a nationally broadcast station as your lead story for weeks after the event is excessive and supremely sensationalist. The only other people in the world that get that kind of airtime are TV stars and politicians. Combined with a misunderstanding of the line between infamy and fame in a deranged mind, I can see how a reclusive "nobody" loner type might hope to become "somebody" by perpetrating a school shooting on the scale of Columbine, Vtech or Iowa State. My primary source of news is CBC radio. Granted it's not a 24hr news network needing to fill airtime with news all the time, but they seriously reported on the Iowa state shooting for 2 days. That's it. It took 1 more day for me to not remember the story at all. When columbine happened, my primary news source was CNN and CBCnewsworld, both 24 hour networks. The event got so much airtime, I bet if I sat down and thought a bit I could still rattle off the victims' names...even years later. My point is, if the story isn't sensationalized, the perpetrator doesn't become infamous and the memory fades. If a news network devotes entire weeks to telling a story like this, the major players can't help but become stamped in our (and future killers') memories.

Anyways, that's my thoughts.

Rambled a bit, but whatever.
........oOOOOOo
......//| | |oO
.....|| | | | O....
BEERS!

......
\\| | | |

........'-----'

0

#68 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:21 PM

Lost Marine;262845 said:

I fail to understand how someone who might enjoy shooting for sport or collect guns as a hobby (because some are real works or art) points to a lack of confidence. I also don't understand how someone wanting to insure that they have the means to protect themselves means they think they are mercenaries or bounty hunters. If you ever wonder why gun control people never get anywhere it comes down to this same cause, you're essentially saying that everyone who owns a gun is a low self esteem loser who just wants to shoot someone. Which has a tendency to piss people off, and is why gun control topics on forums are pretty always closed. There are millions of Americans who own guns and other then that are no different from anyone else. So they tend to get angry when they're all painted as psychos.

As for the constitutional right and why it still applies. It was intended to leave the people with the option of removing the goverment by force if need be, while this is an option that is very very rarely needed it's still nice to have it around just in case.

(Don't take this the wrong way Xander, I like you, I just feel the need to get this out because I think it's a valid point as to why shit doesn't change.)


Damn. I really didn't mean to come off that way, LM. My bad.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the idea that people can walk around concealing weapons scares the crap out of me. I think it just makes the chances of random shootings even higher. I don't like the idea of a lot of people thinking they can go around playing cops. I'm not saying all people who own guns have low self-esteems or are possible maniacs in the waiting...but it bothers me that our country has this obsession with guns.

I don't have a problem with people owning guns...but multiple weaponry and illegal weaponry, that is a problem for me. I had a lot of friends who shot skeet and other things...and I can see the interest in that.

Hope that made more sense, sorry for the earlier post if it pissed you off :D
0

#69 User is offline   Obdigore 

  • ThunderBear
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 6,165
  • Joined: 22-June 06

Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:56 PM

Oh boy, who is ready for a rambling, inconsequencial post that noone agrees with anyway?

Okaly Dokaly, there are a couple reasons Schools keep getting shot up.

1) Parents. Or the lack Thereof.
2) Current American Culture (This does include video games, movies, music, and the 'thug' life.
3) Guns.

Now, the atrocious lack of parenting in the US is a huge cause of problems in children or young adults, and although the solution seems easy, it really isn't. Many families are split, or both parents work. Many kids were mistakes. How to fix it? Tell people they cannot have a divorce? Somehow penalize parents that accidentally have a child when they are 'not prepared' for one (not that I am saying anyone is ever really prepared...). Make a law stating if you have a child, one parent must be a stay-at-home parent?

Secondly, current American 'Life'. (PS - would like some input from our euro friends regarding this, and you south africans, shinrei, I saw someone (skywalker I think) grew up in India... I do welcome thoughts and comparisons to your local) Violent Video Games and Movies are an issue. A 10 year old should not be playing Manhunt. Please tell me I am wrong about that Illy. Again, the Games Industry rates every single game that hits shelves in the big box retailers, most games have the rating on the front, on the back, and next to the system requirements. This rating, like the ones put out by the MPAA, are not legally binding. The government cannot fine someone for selling these to minors.

Now, unlike the MPAA, the Video Games Industry does not release 'unrated' games all over in big box retaliers (best buy, target, that type of place). Now, I have no problems with violent video games. I am addicted to COD4 myself, but I maintain that no 10 year old should own/play one. This of course, also means that children should not watch the news, nor most any TV show.

Moving on to the 'THUG' life in America. It is 'cool' for kids to be 'thugs' now, thanks to the proliferation of rap in its current incarnation. When shooting or beating someone who ridicules you is glamorized, you better believe there are problems.

Now guns. If there were no guns, these people would find some other way to make themselves feel powerfull. Guns? Knives? Rape? Prolonged Psychological Torture? Kidnapping? Although having guns available (not easily, there is a waiting period and backround checks) does mean they might be the tool used. There is no reason to debate it, thats how it is. However, they are just the means to the end. The tool used for these young more than slightly off people to impose their will on those around them.
Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.
0

#70 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:02 PM

Guns are not that hard to get. Sure, there are "background checks" but you literally can walk into a store that sells guns and buy one, under the table. Seen it done, scared the crap out of me.

I agree that parents are a HUGE part of the problem. Too many people have children they didn't want or weren't mature enough to handle. Also, the schools themselves are part of the problem. There isn't enough of an adult presence to control violence, and a lot of this is due to the fact that schools are overcrowded.

My mother is a teacher in a city school in Atlanta, and her class is has 40 kids. State Law in Georgia claims to limit the number to under 30....

Two kids have been shot that attend her schools this year, one was 11 years old. 11 fucking years old.
0

#71 User is offline   Obdigore 

  • ThunderBear
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 6,165
  • Joined: 22-June 06

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:07 PM

Xander;263373 said:

Guns are not that hard to get. Sure, there are "background checks" but you literally can walk into a store that sells guns and buy one, under the table. Seen it done, scared the crap out of me.

I agree that parents are a HUGE part of the problem. Too many people have children they didn't want or weren't mature enough to handle. Also, the schools themselves are part of the problem. There isn't enough of an adult presence to control violence, and a lot of this is due to the fact that schools are overcrowded.

My mother is a teacher in a city school in Atlanta, and her class is has 40 kids. State Law in Georgia claims to limit the number to under 30....

Two kids have been shot that attend her schools this year, one was 11 years old. 11 fucking years old.


No, they aren't hard to get, but if you make a law stopping the sale, how do you enforce it? You can't keep weed/meth/cocaine out of the Country, you won't be able to keep Guns out of the country either.

Maybe I know the wrong sort of people, but getting a gun that dosen't have any licensing or any special identification marks (put on the bullet) isn't hard to get...

ETA:
What I am saying is that making guns illegal, at this stage, won't fix anything. At this point, frankly, the US needs to take a look at itself with a much more critical eye, and spend some money on fixing things at home, instead of a lot of the other things it does.
Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.
0

#72 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:11 PM

I agree with that. We can't even fix our problems but we love jumping into to situations (Like Iraq). If we want to make a difference in the world, why not start with Darfur. Oh wait...no oil there...but that is a separate issue.

I'm not saying make guns illegal. That is impossible and silly. But concealed weapons laws are stupid, IMO. It only increases the possible amount of vigilantes. If you have a gun in your home for protection, great. If you have kids, keep it locked up and away from them.
0

#73 User is offline   Obdigore 

  • ThunderBear
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 6,165
  • Joined: 22-June 06

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:20 PM

Concealed weapon laws are meant to make criminals scared to attack someone who might have a loaded .44 under their coat.

I couldn't say if it works or not, but I highly doube it. Frankly, what we need, is from the ages 12-16 in the US, you attend a 'military' school. You are taught, exercised, and hell, throw in a little indoctrination.

Also, school should be 4 days a week, but year long. That 5th day you come in if you are failling in your studies or whatnot.

I mean the military academy where you go and live on school grounds, and see your parents once a month... Now, I did not go through that, but I would bet I would have had less run-ins with the law if I had.

16-25 year old males think they are immortal. Need a good helping of asswhoopin to bring them to ground. I know I did, although I received it legally.

Rambling, but let me just say that I have run into 40 year old people that havn't matured yet because they never had anything truly HARD happen to them in their lives, basicly children raising children.

But this is not the thread to discuss the current US armed forces 'initiative'.
Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.
0

#74 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:26 PM

I disagree. Military School? Seriously? No way. Never. I'd leave the country. If I have kids, I'd never do that to them.

And video games are NOT THE PROBLEM. It is the parent's responsibility to monitor this. I played video games like Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, and other shooting games when I was younger, didn't ever make me think about shooting someone. Why? Because I understood it was A GAME. Also, I wasn't allowed to have those games until my parents figured I was old enough. Now, not every kid has these benefits, which is the problem. Not the games themselves. I agree that young kids shouldn't be exposed to gratuitous violence, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have games to show this.
0

#75 User is offline   Obdigore 

  • ThunderBear
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 6,165
  • Joined: 22-June 06

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:29 PM

Xander;263398 said:

I disagree. Military School? Seriously? No way. Never. I'd leave the country. If I have kids, I'd never do that to them.

And video games are NOT THE PROBLEM. It is the parent's responsibility to monitor this. I played video games like Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, and other shooting games when I was younger, didn't ever make me think about shooting someone. Why? Because I understood it was A GAME. Also, I wasn't allowed to have those games until my parents figured I was old enough. Now, not every kid has these benefits, which is the problem. Not the games themselves. I agree that young kids shouldn't be exposed to gratuitous violence, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have games to show this.


Like I said, a 10 year old shouldn't be playing COD4 or something. That is the parent's responsability, but they won't take responsability since they aren't even really adults themselves.
Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.
0

#76 User is offline   Cougar 

  • D'ivers Fuckwits
  • View gallery
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 3,028
  • Joined: 13-November 06
  • Location:Lincoln, Lincolnshire, UK.

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:32 PM

Homer Simpson:

"If I didn't have this gun, the King of England could just walk in here anytime he wants and start shoving you around."
I AM A TWAT
0

#77 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:34 PM

A lot of times parents work two jobs or both work, so the kids aren't supervised all the time. This doesn't make them bad parents, it just makes it harder to supervise their children. Kids that shoot up schools are often terribly lonely and outcasts. Kids can be very cruel, and a child's psyche sometimes just can't deal with the problems that afflict youth today. I don't know if we can stop this from happening, but maybe we can help limit it. I guess it is like Terrorism in that way....you can't stop it completely....you just hope to contain and limit it.
0

#78 User is offline   Lost Marine 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 255
  • Joined: 01-September 07

Posted 26 February 2008 - 01:05 AM

Mezla PigDog;263230 said:

Sorry, this really makes me laugh. The whole concept of "defending my home" is surely something that has been completely fabricated. I don't know if it's an American mentality because of your history but how often does a person have to actively defend their home? Of course, you make sure your doors and windows are locked and you have an alarm and exercise general security precautions and take out insurance, but the chances of actually having to defend the place are minute. And I'm not saying this from middle-class suburbia. I live in an area of the UK with very high gun crime statistics. I've been a victim of crime but I have never seen or heard a gun in my life and am rarely presented with a need to think about their existance.

In western Europe, people can't get hold of guns very easily because nobody has them. If householders decided to arm themselves just because criminals can, then the circulation of guns would increase, more criminals and nutcases would have access to them and we'd have the situation that America has. It's like an arms race instigated by a fear of something that doesn't exist. Once the arms race starts, the perceived fear becomes greater.

If western Europeans don't NEED guns, then neither do Americans. It's simply an issue in America because it involves a right being taken away. Europeans have never had the right, so we don't miss it.

American mentality towards firearms just seem ludicrous from this side of the pond.


Having to defend your home is not fabricated, and the statistics (which I am not going to look up right now because I'm a lazy bastard) show that break ins happen in the US at times when the occupants aren't home (mostly) and that in Europe they tend to happen when the occupant is home (mostly).

Apparently the reasoning there is the American burglars don't want to get shot so they come when the people are gone. European burglars prefer when the occupants are home because it means the alarm is deactivated.


As for concealed carry not deterring crime and concealed carry holders being more likely to get into shootouts here's a few things:

http://www.azccw.com/More%20Facts%20&%20Statistics.htm

I know this is a firearms training website but the reports they cite are solid. You can't really argue with the FBI when it comes to crime rates.

As for the chances of me having to defend my family being minute, I'd rather have a gun and never need it then have that minute chance occur and not have one.

The European mindset is far more different from the American then people like to believe. While Europeans can just shrug off not having rights alot of Americans see the Government taking away any rights as encouragement for them to take more. It is a valid point, look at Bush and the Patriot Act or the brouhaha surrounding the Real ID issue. Americans tend to resent intrusion into their private lives by the government far more then Europeans do.
0

#79 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 26 February 2008 - 06:25 AM

I still can't believe they passed "The Patriot Act". What a horrible decision.

I can't wait until we get that asshole out of office.

I understand the idea of having a gun for the worst possible situation, that is fine. The chances are slim, unless you live in a high crime area, that you will ever need a gun for protection. I would guess that most break ins are weapon free.
0

#80 User is offline   Zanth13 

  • We are not the same
  • Group: Kings of Drink
  • Posts: 1,697
  • Joined: 23-August 06
  • Location:Right Behind You

Posted 26 February 2008 - 06:47 AM

Xander;263625 said:

I still can't believe they passed "The Patriot Act". What a horrible decision.

I can't wait until we get that asshole out of office.

I understand the idea of having a gun for the worst possible situation, that is fine. The chances are slim, unless you live in a high crime area, that you will ever need a gun for protection. I would guess that most break ins are weapon free.


On a side note, I believe Austin Texas is the only city in the US that is exempt from the Patriot act... or so I have been told... have not researched it my self.

go Texas
You can't find me because I'm lost in the music
0

Share this topic:


  • 6 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users