[Deragoth]

Sorry if this has already been explained, the search function is disabled.

Anyhow, my question is in regard to the multiple instance of "chainings". I vaguely understand the first chaining (of the Crippled God) but I am not familiar with any of the others. Perhaps I missed a page or two somewhere. Could someone explain them to me in a general sort of way, maybe point me in the direction of what book they are in?

[Aptorian]

The search function (mostly) only works from the main forum list. Try searching that way, there's a lot of threads on this.

Basically there was the first one that happened some time after the fall. Roughly a hundred thousand years ago. Then there was one at the time of Burn going to sleep. This was when the poison of the god first started taking its toll. Then there was one fairly recent, 10-15 years ago, that Dassem, Dancer, Gethol, Envy and numerous other attended. There may have been more chainings but we don't have any clues to them.

[Dancer+]

The last chaining did not take place too long ago at all. It's the chaining where all hell broke lose. Envy didn't turn up, Hood used Dassem's daughter as some type of sacrifice and Dassem renounced Hood. It was also the chaining that Dancer/Cotillion turned up to.

The chainings are done periodically when the bindings are growing perilously weak, I assume.

[Skywalker]

IIRC, there is only one mention of multiple "chainings" within the books... it comes as a chapter leading quote:

HoC, on Ch 23, said:

Who among the pantheon would the Fallen One despise and fear the most? Consider the last chaining, in which Hood, Fener, the Queen of Dreams, Osserc and Oponn all participated, in addition to Anomander Rake, Caladan Brood and a host of other ascendants. It is not so surprising, then, that the Crippled God could not have anticipated that his deadliest enemy was not found among those mentioned . . .

The Chainings
Istan Hela

When Brood/ Kallor/ WhiskeyJack/ Hood/ Rake/ K'rul/ Envy et al talk, they are probably talking about the last chaining, which happened around the time Dassem Ultor broke with Hood. Said chaining was attended by several people...

GoTM, on Ch 12, said:

Kruppe sat reading in Mammot's study -

"...and in the Calling Down to earth the God was Crippled, and so Chained in its place. In the Calling Down many lands were sundered by the God's Fists, and things were born and things were released.

Chained and Crippled was this God -"

Kruppe glanced up from the ancient tome and rolled his eyes. "Brevity, Kruppe prays for brevity!"

He returned to the faded handwritten script.

"... and it bred caution in the unveiling of its powers. The Crippled God bred caution but not well enough, for the powers of the earth came to it in the end. Chained was the Crippled God, and so Chained was it destroyed. And upon this barren plain that imprisoned the Crippled God many gathered to the deed. Hood, grey wanderer of Death, was among the gathering, as was Dessembrae, then Hood's Warrior - though it was here and in this time that Dessembrae shattered the bonds Hood held upon him. Also among the gathering were -"

Kruppe groaned and flipped pages. The list seemed interminable, absurdly long. From this account he half expected to see his grandmother's name among those listed. Finally, after three pages, he found the names he sought...

"and among those that came from the vaulted heavens of silver, the Tiste Andii, dwellers of Darkness in the Place before Light, Black Dragons numbering five, and in their league sailed red-winged Silanah, said to dwell among the Tiste Andii in their Fang of Darkness descending from the vaulted heavens of silver"

EDIT> Finally, there is this quote from SE himself in an interview with Pat:

Quote

- Another question to which the answer remains unclear has to do with the Chaining of the Crippled God. In many instances readers are given hints that seem to indicate that there were several Chainings over the millennia. Is that the case?

Yes, several beating downs have occurred. The relevant one is the one where Hood sought to recruit Dassem, was refused, and took his daughter instead, thus triggering an obsessive need for venegeance that, well, persists.

[pastures]

well that is an excellent quote Skywalker (is it Anakin, Luke or Leia?). Also confirms Dassem-Dessembrae link.

i think after a few attempts to escape his chains, the CG decided he'd use them to his advantage and poison Burn.

[Deragoth]

Thanks all, very informative =)

[Optimus Prime]

Aptorian;257305 said:

The search function (mostly) only works from the main forum list. Try searching that way, there's a lot of threads on this.

Basically there was the first one that happened some time after the fall. Roughly a hundred thousand years ago. Then there was one at the time of Burn going to sleep. This was when the poison of the god first started taking its toll. Then there was one fairly recent, 10-15 years ago, that Dassem, Dancer, Gethol, Envy and numerous other attended. There may have been more chainings but we don't have any clues to them.

Wait. Didn't Krul say that Envy didn't attend the last chaining? And that was why he was angry with her in MoI?

Hmmm...so I wonder whether Dassem is still planning on extracting his revenge on Hood...or whether he is merely going to end up replacing Hood's role eventually...

You guys thoughts on that?

[Dancer+]

I don't see any reason why Dassem would want to replace Hood apart from wanting to uplift him, it has a nice ring to it though. Dassem Ultor, Lord of Death. It would certainly shake the pantheon up a bit.

Personally I can and can't see it happening, I'm more leaning towards the latter. We should find out in RotCG what Traveller's (and maybe Dassem's by duplicity) plans are.

Envy didn't attend like it was iterated in my post.

[Optimus Prime]

Quote

Yes, several beating downs have occurred. The relevant one is the one where Hood sought to recruit Dassem, was refused, and took his daughter instead, thus triggering an obsessive need for venegeance that, well, persists.

This quote from SE is what makes me think about Hood and Dassem. What is Dassem's "obsessive need for vengeance?"

I mean...I know he wants it for his daughter...but how is he going to take this course?

[Dancer+]

Restoring her soul. Perhaps he will offer a bargain to Hood, some of the Avowed or one for his daughter's soul. It sounds reasonable.

[Optimus Prime]

Hmm...I'd think Hood would rather have the souls of some T'Lan Imass...he can't hate anything as much as the Ritual...depriving him of all those souls.

But good idea Dancer.

[Dancer+]

The problem specifically with the T'lan Imass is their souls shouldn't go to Hood in the end, they want Oblivion. Plus if Traveller is Dassem them he is on Quon Tali with the Avowed in RotCG. Someone predicted a teaming up of the two, I think it will be a lot more convulted than that. I'm waiting eagerly to find out what happens.

[Optimus Prime]

I'm also curious if we will see the Jaghut stir....I want to see some pissed off Jaghut wreaking havoc.

I could see Dassem and the Avowed team up....that is a scary notion.

[Dancer+]

The avowed have nothing against Hood however, apart from his minor dislike for what they've done. Dassem hates Hood, and may or may not dislike the Avowed. The Avowed most likely dislike Dassem.

It's all a matter of what everyone's goals are because I'm sure they can all cooperate.

[Skywalker]

Well we do know that Dassem has been among the few (the only?) individual to clash one on one with the Avowed and kill them/ walk away from the confrontation. I don't think there will be much love lost between the Avowed and him.

Then again as MOI and RG have shown us expediency takes over in the MBoTF series, so they may just be allies now that Dassem is outside the Imperial First Sword role.

The one thing I can't figure out is why Dassem would be anti-Laseen... after all (minor NoK spoilage)

Spoiler

He seems to not resent her trying to kill him outside Y'Ghatan - at no point did he express need to take revenge from her for that attack by the Claw

On topic, I wonder what the chainings actually involved. SE describes them as "beat-downs" and we know that the Crippled God is "chained to Burn", but why does it take three pages worth Ascendants to hold in place and 'chain' a guy whose tent a mere blacksmith can break down, and who can subsequently be beat up by Mael alone?

Then there is this quote from Korlat when Rake tells her in MOI that there will be an unveiling at Coral:

Quote

"At the Chaining, there were but forty of us, yet we destroyed the Crippled God's entire realm - granted, a nascent realm. None the less, Lord. Eleven hundred… we risk devastating this entire continent."

Where is the need to spend the kind of magical energy involving so many folks?

[Aptorian]

Because the Crippled God is terribly powerfull, but his power is chained along with him, his influence of the world is minimal.

As for Dassem, he didn't object to the possibility of him ruling the empire in NoK. On the other hand, Dassem is preoccupied and probably doesn't care about who rules the empire at the present.

[Abyss]

Dassem is quite clearly not anti-Malazan, given his interaction with the soldiers on Drift Avalii in HoC. That said, he may be more than a little pissed at Laseen and the Claw per NoK.

I find the notion of Dassem/Traveller/Dessembrae being vengeance obsessed against Hood as interesting. Hood is allied with, at a minimum, Shadowthrone and the QoD against the CG. Taking Hood out could be a major blow against the side trying to stop the CG - but if Dassem's obsessed enough, he could got for it.


As for the Chainings, it's clear there have been at least two, probably more. It's unclear just when Burn became involved or exactly what's involved in Chaining an immensely powerful god who is STILL causing trouble. At a guess, CG is still powerful, but his power has limits because of the chains, and so things like Withal knocking down the tent or QB slapping him in the nose can still affect him.


- Abyss, slap-happy.

[Coco with marshmallows]

Skywalker;257732 said:

On topic, I wonder what the chainings actually involved. SE describes them as "beat-downs" and we know that the Crippled God is "chained to Burn", but why does it take three pages worth Ascendants to hold in place and 'chain' a guy whose tent a mere blacksmith can break down, and who can subsequently be beat up by Mael alone?

the thing is, i always thought that by destroying the CG'c nascent realm, they weakened/shattered it to some extent.

so that a blacksmith could knock it over.

Also, i think that at some point in the past, the CG was actively trying to create a warren/realm, hence the need for the Andii to destroy it during a chaining.

This time, the CG is merely trying to 'influence the game', not create a new realm for himself, so what's left of his realm remains weak enough for a blacksmith to knock over and for a solo god (albeit a very powerful Elder one) to wander in and batter him.

[Optimus Prime]

Good points.

I'm sure that each time he has been chained, the Crippled God's scheme was different.

First Chaining---After his initial fall. The Ascendants/Gods didn't know much about this foreign God...but they knew he was tattered and possibly insane. So they chained him

Second Chaining--The Crippled God finally regains at least some of his awareness and tries (for the first time) to escape. So the Ascendants/Gods again chain him and "beat him down".

This probably happens a few more times until present day, except this time, the Crippled God is trying a lot more subterfuge.