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I could've sworn she can use magic....are you sure?
Anybody? Quote?
The Empress....
#21
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:22 AM
#22
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:32 AM
It's been discussed if she has magical abilities. There's no real proof for or against the idea.
Her use of Ottataral in the throneroom is what you'd call "tactics" sacrificing one means of attack for another, to improve the odds of taking out the two. Kellanveds magical abilities were not something you'd want to experience, neither was Dancers shadowdancing ability.
The only time we see her associated with magic is in DG, where Kalam comes to kill her. The room is shrouded in darkness and a corpse is animated to relay her voice. The question that was asked was, did she prepare that herself or did she just have one of her many mages in claw, maybe even tay himself, set it up for her? The way she leaves Topper alone to talk with the corpse could suggest that she herself had some control in the matter.
As for Rel and Mael. I don't understand why people think Mael is going to interfere in Rels business. First off, Mael doesn't care about what his worshippers do... most often anyway. Second, what has Rel done that should anoy Mael? If Rel made the empire fall, he would only be taking just revenge upon the killers of his people.
Her use of Ottataral in the throneroom is what you'd call "tactics" sacrificing one means of attack for another, to improve the odds of taking out the two. Kellanveds magical abilities were not something you'd want to experience, neither was Dancers shadowdancing ability.
The only time we see her associated with magic is in DG, where Kalam comes to kill her. The room is shrouded in darkness and a corpse is animated to relay her voice. The question that was asked was, did she prepare that herself or did she just have one of her many mages in claw, maybe even tay himself, set it up for her? The way she leaves Topper alone to talk with the corpse could suggest that she herself had some control in the matter.
As for Rel and Mael. I don't understand why people think Mael is going to interfere in Rels business. First off, Mael doesn't care about what his worshippers do... most often anyway. Second, what has Rel done that should anoy Mael? If Rel made the empire fall, he would only be taking just revenge upon the killers of his people.
#23
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 05:44 PM
Dancer;252472 said:
The Empress isn't a mage. She doesn't have a warren otherwise she wouldn't have (SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER FROM NoK)
Spoiler
That tactic was to neutralise their magic wielding ability - she had the Claw at her disposal and was hoping weight of numbers would do the trick.
#24
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:38 PM
I agree with Hetan.
Her tactics at the end of NoK were to give here the advantage...
I swear I remember her being called a mage.
Her tactics at the end of NoK were to give here the advantage...
I swear I remember her being called a mage.
#26
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:43 PM
Well, she was head of the Claw, an organisation dominated by assassin mages... is that not enough?
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
#27
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:44 PM
Aptorian;252608 said:
Quotes or it didn't happen!
I gave my copy of NoK to my brother.
I agree with Brood. She has some ability. Damnit where are my books!
#28
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:24 PM
It would be obvious for her to have some ability, it's just never mentioned. Surly is always mentioned in relation to the empires assassins, never mentioned in the same breath of the magecadre personalities.
#29
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:56 PM
I was under the impression that otataral was the bane of magic, and it incapicitated magic users. Kellanved was knocked out of the battle almost completely in NoK and had to have Dancer support him whilst taking out the claw; has anyone a theory about to what extent Mages are affected by otataral? I thought Kruppe feinted under the effects of Lorn's sword.
Personally I think we've seen no evidence for the Empress having a warren, where we've seen aspects including common sense/experience that suggest she has not. Why would she carry around Otataral dust if it was her bane? Name another mage who has done.
Personally I think we've seen no evidence for the Empress having a warren, where we've seen aspects including common sense/experience that suggest she has not. Why would she carry around Otataral dust if it was her bane? Name another mage who has done.
#30
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:48 PM
A funny thing. Stormy used to be an Adjutant. It means the same thing as Adjunct- next to something. Could Adjutant be the male version?
#31
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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:51 PM
Dancer;252639 said:
I was under the impression that otataral was the bane of magic, and it incapicitated magic users. Kellanved was knocked out of the battle almost completely in NoK and had to have Dancer support him whilst taking out the claw; has anyone a theory about to what extent Mages are affected by otataral? I thought Kruppe feinted under the effects of Lorn's sword.
Personally I think we've seen no evidence for the Empress having a warren, where we've seen aspects including common sense/experience that suggest she has not. Why would she carry around Otataral dust if it was her bane? Name another mage who has done.
Personally I think we've seen no evidence for the Empress having a warren, where we've seen aspects including common sense/experience that suggest she has not. Why would she carry around Otataral dust if it was her bane? Name another mage who has done.
Kellanved had to be supported by Dancer because he's an extremely powerful mage who also happens to be about 200 years old, in a room full of warren-denying powder. And assassins. As to mages using otataral, probably the only magic-using person who has used it, or at least created the effect, is Spite, and that doesn't count.
Oh, as to Kruppe's collapse: fainting, or dreaming?
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#32
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:24 AM
Dancer;252639 said:
I was under the impression that otataral was the bane of magic, and it incapicitated magic users. Kellanved was knocked out of the battle almost completely in NoK and had to have Dancer support him whilst taking out the claw; has anyone a theory about to what extent Mages are affected by otataral? I thought Kruppe feinted under the effects of Lorn's sword.
Personally I think we've seen no evidence for the Empress having a warren, where we've seen aspects including common sense/experience that suggest she has not. Why would she carry around Otataral dust if it was her bane? Name another mage who has done.
Personally I think we've seen no evidence for the Empress having a warren, where we've seen aspects including common sense/experience that suggest she has not. Why would she carry around Otataral dust if it was her bane? Name another mage who has done.
It's not like she hauls a bag of O dust around on her person. The room was prepared. She had help. She didn't need to take an active role in the fight, only to be there to witness their deaths. That's why the whole place was crawling with Claws.
As for Kruppe, it was my impression that Kruppe was knocked out by the Ottataral, but Illy's idea makes sense, K'rull could have pulled him out of there and into dreamworld like he did with the people at the caravan in MoI.
#33
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:26 AM
I figured the use of Ottaral was to take Kellanved out of the fight and just have to deal with Cotillion.
I figured Surly thought group of Claw could take them out without magic.
I still swear she has been mentioned as a mage before.
I figured Surly thought group of Claw could take them out without magic.
I still swear she has been mentioned as a mage before.
#34
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 10:00 AM
The nearest I can get to on this defining point is this :-
‘About the Empress. She was once Mistress of the Claw. Its fierce
potency was given shape by her, and we have all learned to fear those
mage-assassins. –HOC
One supposes that it is from this kind of reference it is assumed that she has some mage-prowess herself. I still feel there's a more direct reference however.
There's also a cople of other items... one is the scene in Mock's Hold at the end of DG where she is talking with Kalam, but that could be somone else manipulating the corpse - not Topper though.
The other is the scene at the end of NoK when she is talking to Tays. He says something to anger her and she makes a gesture as if to cast something at him... ephemeral at best I know
I've searched under Empress, Laseen, Surly, Meanas Rashan - anyone come up with better search words, post and I'll give it a try
‘About the Empress. She was once Mistress of the Claw. Its fierce
potency was given shape by her, and we have all learned to fear those
mage-assassins. –HOC
One supposes that it is from this kind of reference it is assumed that she has some mage-prowess herself. I still feel there's a more direct reference however.
There's also a cople of other items... one is the scene in Mock's Hold at the end of DG where she is talking with Kalam, but that could be somone else manipulating the corpse - not Topper though.
The other is the scene at the end of NoK when she is talking to Tays. He says something to anger her and she makes a gesture as if to cast something at him... ephemeral at best I know
I've searched under Empress, Laseen, Surly, Meanas Rashan - anyone come up with better search words, post and I'll give it a try
#35
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 04:18 PM
Good quote. I agree. Being a claw pretty much says she has some magical ability. I'm not saying she is Tayschrenn or anything.
#36
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 04:33 PM
... Are we going to have the Paran discussion all over gain?
The sceptical historian in me refuses to accept that Laseen is a mage just because she's created a ninja squad that uses magics.
The sceptical historian in me refuses to accept that Laseen is a mage just because she's created a ninja squad that uses magics.
#37
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 07:34 PM
Aptorian;252890 said:
... Are we going to have the Paran discussion all over gain?
The sceptical historian in me refuses to accept that Laseen is a mage just because she's created a ninja squad that uses magics.
The sceptical historian in me refuses to accept that Laseen is a mage just because she's created a ninja squad that uses magics.
No, becuase then you'd end up against everyone again..
To be serious, though, i don't think she's a mage either. She was a bar wench, for God's sake. What mage would stoop that low?
Ofc, the corpse thing does make one wonder...
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Jump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:
And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
#38
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:53 PM
kud13;252943 said:
She was a bar wench, for God's sake. What mage would stoop that low?
yeah, a bar OWNED by Kellanved.
meh. Link was dead :(
#39
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 10:19 PM
Xander;252768 said:
I figured the use of Ottaral was to take Kellanved out of the fight and just have to deal with Cotillion.
I figured Surly thought group of Claw could take them out without magic.
I still swear she has been mentioned as a mage before.
I figured Surly thought group of Claw could take them out without magic.
I still swear she has been mentioned as a mage before.
I've always thought of Surly an ordinary claw given extensive powers by the deadhouse. In addition to being as tough as nails and reasonably cunning.
I was under the impression Kellanved went 'alone' to talk to Surly and Dancer came in afterwards to save Kellanved.
#40
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Posted 03 February 2008 - 11:03 PM
No, it's obvious that Dancer and Kel knew what was coming. Surly was an ambitious woman, and they'd have figured out, if not heard directly from their own spies, what would happen upon their return.
Everything that happened upon the shadow moon, perhaps with the exception of Olegs persistance, went according to the dastardly duos plans.
Everything that happened upon the shadow moon, perhaps with the exception of Olegs persistance, went according to the dastardly duos plans.
