[Urb]

Nice ending to the season. Not as intense as the earlier season finales, but I can live with that.
Still no giants with only eight toes walking around though

[QuickTidal]

Kulp Diet;321192 said:

So next season Jack & Sun will be working together to convince Hurley, Sayid, and Kate to go back (the latter is going to be a really hard sell with Aaron and I forsee ugliness).

Yeah, don't forget convincing Desmond....which will be tough, cause what if he can't bring Penny with him? He won't leave her.

[Pig Iron]

What do you think is going on now after the series finale, crazy-theories-wise?

Didnt Ben talk about a pocket of exotic matter? The island might be a meteorite with properties that allow time travel, and maybe other things. There could be semi-scientific quantum-mechanical stuff going on, with the "magic box" being something collapsing possible realities to what the user wants.

The magic box might give you what you want (say having Lockes father on the island) by making exactly that having already occurred so to speak. Suddenly a lot of coincidences have happened to effect that which you desired.

My favourite theory is that they're in a quantum-bubble or time loop in which the Losties are alive, even though they all died in the planecrash in the normal timeline. Spacetime will unravel unless the loop is closed and they actually die. This can only happen if they go back, and as long as they don't the pressure builds from the universe to course-correct their lifelines. There could be a final scene in the plane before it crashes with most of the main characers being there of their own free will and conscious of their choice before they die.

Alternatively, something similar may have happened around the time of the Dharma Initiative, with a time-loop or -paradox having been created and needing some specific people (descendants of the DI?) to resolve it, these people being brought in on the plane by serendipity with the help of the Magic Box. That would explain the incredible number of coincidences in the back-stories of the different losties.

Do I make sense at all? Maybe posting half-thought through posts in the middle of the night aint so smart. Hope you dont mind.

[amphibian]

Pig Iron;321306 said:

What do you think is going on now after the series finale, crazy-theories-wise?

Didnt Ben talk about a pocket of exotic matter? The island might be a meteorite with properties that allow time travel, and maybe other things. There could be semi-scientific quantum-mechanical stuff going on,

A lot of people have been speculating about dark matter being at the center of this show. I read one long thesis by a guy who had put a lotta time and ingenuity into constructing a somewhat workable theory that the Island was a reflected dimension in "mirror matter" - which is dark matter understood differently. Go search "mirrormattermoon" and you'll come across it.

Quote

with the "magic box" being something collapsing possible realities to what the user wants.

The magic box might give you what you want (say having Lockes father on the island) by making exactly that having already occurred so to speak. Suddenly a lot of coincidences have happened to effect that which you desired.

According to Ben, one of the most manipulative and deceitful characters on any television show: the box is a metaphor.

I find that he tells the straight truth some of the time and I suspect that this is one of those cases. There is no magic box that grants any wish - instead, Ben has carefully researched all of the Losties and understands what they most want. In Locke's case, revenge on his father was a pretty easy hit for Ben.

However, the show keeps telling us that there is something very special about the Island and Ben might have been referring to the Island as a means to get whatever you really wanted.

Keep speculating. Go out on limbs. Take a flyer (see what I did there? Anyone? Anyone?). Just like Erikson's books, all these crazy theories are entertaining and are a tribute to the authors of the work being produced.

[Pig Iron]

The Magic Box is probably no box of course, but a metaphor like Ben says. But it was he who stated that something like it exists. Miles (if that's his name, Sees-dead-people) seems to think that Ben can get pretty much anything. Could mean he's just rich and powerful of course, but still.

Think it's a great story anyway.

BTW, the island is a sunken KCCM skykeep and Richard Alpert looks a bit Tiste Andii, no?

[Urb]

amphibian;321431 said:

A lot of people have been speculating about dark matter being at the center of this show. I read one long thesis by a guy who had put a lotta time and ingenuity into constructing a somewhat workable theory that the Island was a reflected dimension in "mirror matter" - which is dark matter understood differently. Go search "mirrormattermoon" and you'll come across it.

That was very entertaining.
Cheers amphibian

[Cougar]

The most interesting character has to be Richard Alpert, I mean he is unchanged in 50 years having been at Locke's brith etc. Ben's comment to him 'You still remember birthdays' also adds mystery. It would be cool to find out more about him.

I was a bit underwhelmed by the islands disappearance, since it had no significant effect on the water around it which it would have had.

[Urb]

Cougar;321579 said:

I was a bit underwhelmed by the islands disappearance, since it had no significant effect on the water around it which it would have had.

Maybe whatever is located where the island ended up (a lot of seawater?) switched places with the island? I'm sure someone will come up with some kind of explanation for it. So far, the only thing that bugs me about this show, is Sawyer hiding behind a bulletabsorbing parkbench (without being killed) in a gunfight against trained commandoes. But I'm willing to blame the writers strike for that.

[amphibian]

Urb;321837 said:

Maybe whatever is located where the island ended up (a lot of seawater?) switched places with the island? I'm sure someone will come up with some kind of explanation for it. So far, the only thing that bugs me about this show, is Sawyer hiding behind a bulletabsorbing parkbench (without being killed) in a gunfight against trained commandoes. But I'm willing to blame the writers strike for that.

One thing about that commando team that may just be a result of the limits of special effects: they shot these tiny bullets. Like .22 or less. Look at the scene where Karl and Danielle get shot and you can see this tiny hole in the water bottle.

There's a bunch of speculation that Ben just changed the space-time pathways to the island and didn't actually move it physically.

Here's a couple question I'm particularly interested in: why was it so cold inside the chamber? Why create a wooden wheel? Was that wheel pre- or post-Black Rock?

[Kulp Diet]

amphibian;321980 said:

Here's a couple question I'm particularly interested in: why was it so cold inside the chamber? Why create a wooden wheel? Was that wheel pre- or post-Black Rock?

My guess:
It was cold there because it was in a different location, most likely a fixed one in the arctic, where they get polar bears to beam to the island and the desert (remember the dead Dahrma polar bear Charlotte found?). Ben created a wormhole in space time, which was indistinguishable from just a cavern to us TV watchers, when he put metal in the temporal microwave.

The wheel is anyone's guess. It didn't seem to be made of wood to me.

[QuickTidal]

Cougar;321579 said:

I was a bit underwhelmed by the islands disappearance, since it had no significant effect on the water around it which it would have had.

You say that like the island actually interacts with the water it seemed to be sitting in, I'm pretty sure it doesn't.....you believe that is air you're breathing now Neo?

[Pig Iron]

http://mirrormattermoon.blogspot.com/

That was hysterical. Thanks for the tip.

Still think the island is a KCCM sky-keep.

[amphibian]

Kulp Diet;322037 said:

My guess:
It was cold there because it was in a different location, most likely a fixed one in the arctic, where they get polar bears to beam to the island and the desert (remember the dead Dahrma polar bear Charlotte found?). Ben created a wormhole in space time, which was indistinguishable from just a cavern to us TV watchers, when he put metal in the temporal microwave.

The wheel is anyone's guess. It didn't seem to be made of wood to me.

I just rewatched that scene (youtube video) and checked Lostpedia: that wheel's made of wood.

Somehow, I don't think the chamber was off-island. Ben disappeared into a similar tunnel in his house, perhaps to call the smoke monster, during the commando raid on New Otherton. I suspect that Dharma built everything on top of already discovered and pre-existing structures. Maybe the Hostiles or Black Rock people built those structures or maybe four-toed aliens from Orion's Belt are the original Losties.

[Kulp Diet]

amphibian;322606 said:

I just rewatched that scene (youtube video) and checked Lostpedia: that wheel's made of wood.

Somehow, I don't think the chamber was off-island. Ben disappeared into a similar tunnel in his house, perhaps to call the smoke monster, during the commando raid on New Otherton. I suspect that Dharma built everything on top of already discovered and pre-existing structures. Maybe the Hostiles or Black Rock people built those structures or maybe four-toed aliens from Orion's Belt are the original Losties.

Wood it is.
But I've thought it possible the Ben travelled through time and space, from perhaps another machine under his house, during said raid. My theory on the smoke monster is that it rights potential temporal paradoxes, since its pretty much established that the island is a wierd spot in the space/time continuum. For some reason, Eko needed to be taken out because of how he would screw up the future if allowed to live. So I like the idea that perhaps Ben went back in time to make the commandos "not supposed to be there" or something.

I stand by my wormhole theory, despite the lack of cliche' Dr. Who/Stargate/Farscape vortex effects.

[amphibian]

Kulp Diet;322708 said:

Wood it is.
But I've thought it possible the Ben travelled through time and space, from perhaps another machine under his house, during said raid. My theory on the smoke monster is that it rights potential temporal paradoxes, since its pretty much established that the island is a wierd spot in the space/time continuum. For some reason, Eko needed to be taken out because of how he would screw up the future if allowed to live. So I like the idea that perhaps Ben went back in time to make the commandos "not supposed to be there" or something.

I stand by my wormhole theory, despite the lack of cliche' Dr. Who/Stargate/Farscape vortex effects.

The one commando killed by the smoke monster had flesh wounds and all the others survived that particular encounter (all but Keamy died later during an ambush at the helicopter). If your theory holds, the commandos were supposed to be on the island, but were not supposed to kill anyone else at that particular time or were supposed to be moving elsewhere to do other things.

I think you are right when you indirectly point out that the smoke monster "thinks". The Mr. Eko meet/greet/kill to me showed all the hallmarks of at least an animal-level intelligence.

[Aptorian]

I maintain my belief that it's an intelligent nanobot "Fog" cloud from the islands future working as a kind of security system... even though the writters have denied it.

[Pig Iron]

Like the nanobot idea. If time travel is possible there almost has to be people from the future involved. I know someone suggested the black lady Desmond met who told him about the island. If there is a dangerous time-rift/paradox developing she could be from some brand of time-patrol, cf Asimov's "End of Eternity" for instance. I actually thought this season's cliff-hanger would be a time-loop, part of the story starting over or something like that.

Beautiful with a tv-series that get you speculating like that. If they pull the whole thing off story-wise it will be a classic for the ages

[Tiger_sword]

Yeah thats exactly what I thought, they have set it up brilliantly now they just have to bring it home, I do hope that it ends well (by that I mean a satisfactory end with all storylines concluded)

[Abyss]

It's all fairly simple.
'Exotic matter' metoerite hits island. Causes way crazy electromagnetic effects that play havoc with time, space, weather and health - all things affected by magnetism, (depending on which wicca spirit cult you belong to). Notable example is Jacob and the apparently ageless dudes. Influence can extend through space and time.

Over the course of history, people stumble on this island and are suitably freaked out. vague records grow. The DI finds the island, starts doing experiments there. Some experiments go wrong (hence, wandering polar bears and the first Hatch with button). Ben arrives with his dad, grows up, finds people opposed to the DI. Takes leadership, kills off DI people, takes over. Pisses off Wigmore, who had some investment in the island. Island gets moved. Wigmore can't find it. Desmond gets stranded. Pushes button. gets pissed off, doesn't push button, Oceanic plane crashes, cut to season one, ep one.

- Abyss, can also explain the creation of the universe in one paragraph.

[cerveza_fiesta]

I thought one of the coolest parts of the finale was the orchid station itself. It was a very cool looking station, the lighting in there was perfect and very creepy. Looked like something out of Half life.

The "casimir effect" mentioned in Dr. Halowax's orientation film is related to space compression and current theories on the functioning of actual warp drives and establishment of stable wormholes.

All in all a very good finale I thought. Cheers to them for making it an extra hour in length too. Very good, though they could have cut a couple Sun's piercing screeches when the boat blows up...fuck.

Did anybody else find it convenient that Penny showed up to rescue them right away? I can't remember if that was because she was monitoring the magnetic disturbances or what. It might be related to what you guys were talkind about with stuff "supposed to happen". Like the island couldn't just let them die in a raft...it shifted the timeline so that penny would show up and help them.