[h@irlock]

i've just finished memories and i have a few questions about it. if somebody could answer them, i'd appreciate it.

1. how did the matron and the seer get out of the rent at morn? did the crippled god assist in that or what?

2. how did quick ben figure out the pannion seer? on pg. 506 he talks to hood about the seer with hood: hood says the seer is "at the heart of an altogether different tale" and QB says "i guessed as much... even so, i plan on unravelling the bastard...". after that he meets up with paran and nobody really talks about the seer too much. at the end, when paran and qb corner the seer, qb and talamandas somehow have a plan all worked out to transport everybody to morn. i was really surprised that he knew everything that was going on. is there some point where he puts this together or is that line with hood it?

3. how did kilava live for so long? she was one of the imass that didn't undergo the t'lan ritual, right?

[Folken]

1) Matron was released when Kilava sent the children into the rent. The Seer was released by the CG me thinks.

2) im confused...its late maybe someone else will help with that one

3) Answered in book 4. I'd say it here as its not really a spoiler but just read on to book four it's explained how shes lived this long.

[Skywalker]

2) The T'lan Imass tell Itkovian that the name "Pannion" is a Jaghut name. Lady Envy figures out the seer is a Jaghut because the sorcery that hits them on the ice flats is Omtose Phellack. Crone reports to Brood that the seer uses Omtose Phellack at some point as well. So its an open secret really...

As for Quick Ben finding out, he hears it when he and Paran join the discussion between all the heavies (Kallor, Silverfox, Brood, K'rul, Dujek etc.) after the Second Gathering... Silverfox asks everyone to leave the seer to her T'lan Imass because they know how to deal with Jaghut.

Silverfox knows because Pran Chole tells her during the second gathering that he knows of only one flesh and blood Jaghut outside of the houses of the Azath

[Imperial Historian]

Quote

1. how did the matron and the seer get out of the rent at morn? did the crippled god assist in that or what?

The soul trapped in the rent is replaced when another soul replaces it, so the matron was originally trapped, was briefly replaced by pannion, and then pannions sister replaced pannion, leaving the matron and pannion freed, though deep underground, and pannions sister trapped. It's unlikely the crippled god had anything to do with it, for one I'm not sure the crippled god had arrived at this point

[Dolorous Menhir]

Imperial Historian;237177 said:

It's unlikely the crippled god had anything to do with it, for one I'm not sure the crippled god had arrived at this point

He hadn't. Kilava placed Pannion and his sister in the Morn Rent before the Tellan Ritual.

[h@irlock]

sky_walker;237174 said:

2) The T'lan Imass tell Itkovian that the name "Pannion" is a Jaghut name. Lady Envy figures out the seer is a Jaghut because the sorcery that hits them on the ice flats is Omtose Phellack. Crone reports to Brood that the seer uses Omtose Phellack at some point as well. So its an open secret really...

As for Quick Ben finding out, he hears it when he and Paran join the discussion between all the heavies (Kallor, Silverfox, Brood, K'rul, Dujek etc.) after the Second Gathering... Silverfox asks everyone to leave the seer to her T'lan Imass because they know how to deal with Jaghut.

Silverfox knows because Pran Chole tells her during the second gathering that he knows of only one flesh and blood Jaghut outside of the houses of the Azath

but how did qb know about the whole backstory about pannion's sister and the rent at morn? did he acquire memories/knowledge from the six(was it six?) souls that he absorbed in the chain of dogs, or just magic abilities? that would explain it. i don't remember qb talking to silverfox very much.

[Aptorian]

The chain of dogs and Quicks soulshift happen more than ten years appart, so no. Quick is good at sniffing out information, any of the means mentioned above are likely.

As for Kilavas long lifespan, as jennifer says, much about her is revealed later but a part of the discussion on her lifespan has also centered around her soletaken form. It seems that many Soletaken live very long lives.

[Skywalker]

h@irlock;237290 said:

but how did qb know about the whole backstory about pannion's sister and the rent at morn? did he acquire memories/knowledge from the six(was it six?) souls that he absorbed in the chain of dogs, or just magic abilities? that would explain it. i don't remember qb talking to silverfox very much.

I think SE just attributed it to how QB thinks like a spider, weaving intricate webs or whatever... I parsed through MOI just now and couldn't find an instance when he heard the tale from someone (Talamandas, Kruppe, Silverfox, Hood, or anyone else)

[h@irlock]

Aptorian;237505 said:

The chain of dogs and Quicks soulshift happen more than ten years appart, so no. Quick is good at sniffing out information, any of the means mentioned above are likely.

As for Kilavas long lifespan, as jennifer says, much about her is revealed later but a part of the discussion on her lifespan has also centered around her soletaken form. It seems that many Soletaken live very long lives.

i thought his soulshift happened when whiskeyjack was chasing him in the desert... my memory is hazy don't know why i said chain of dogs. anyway, he doesn't have the memories of the souls he absorbed? because if he did it might explain how he had heard the story about morn and the pannion/his sister/kilava/the matron.

also, i thought it was wierd that he knew kilava on sight in her soultaken form. he says something like "wait a second bonecaster". i don't remember him meeting kilava before that, how did he know she was a bonecaster?

[Mcflury]

can't QB just smell magic out? I mean, it seems likely Kilava has some of her bonecaster magic about her.. (if she just shapeshifted, you would have that spicy smell in the air as is always described, and Kilava does look like a T'lan imass... so if QB would smell that spicy air, and saw a T'lan Imass, he'd know it was a bonecaster, no?)

[Aptorian]

h@irlock;237597 said:

i thought his soulshift happened when whiskeyjack was chasing him in the desert... my memory is hazy don't know why i said chain of dogs. anyway, he doesn't have the memories of the souls he absorbed? because if he did it might explain how he had heard the story about morn and the pannion/his sister/kilava/the matron.

The Chain of Dogs, in Deadhouse Gates, takes place roughly 10 years after Laseens rule begins. QB soulshift and the hunt through raraku takes place at lest a year before Laseens coop.

So yeah, QB has had a lot of things on his mind for over a decade. And he was already pretty sneaky before the shift.

Mcflury;237603 said:

can't QB just smell magic out? I mean, it seems likely Kilava has some of her bonecaster magic about her.. (if she just shapeshifted, you would have that spicy smell in the air as is always described, and Kilava does look like a T'lan imass... so if QB would smell that spicy air, and saw a T'lan Imass, he'd know it was a bonecaster, no?)

I agree that these are the means by which QB would recognice a Bonecaster. Nitpicking, she's not T'lan Imass as she didn't participate in the ritual.

[Mcflury]

okay, she's not tlan imass, but she's imass alright (or tlan... which of the two exactly it was, I can't remember)... so absically, she's got the same bone-structure

[Aptorian]

The original race was the Imass.

On the subject of "T'lan" it seems to be a derived from Tellan (most likely refering to the Imass doing the ritual of Tellan to become undead) the ' in T'lan refers to a glotal stop, which the Imass seem to use to indicate something that is severed or broken. Onos T'oolan for example.

Calling themselves T'lan Imass means that they are themselves broken.

[Imperial Historian]

I thought the t'lan referred to the corrupted version of tellan that their warren has become thanks to the ritual... after all the original tellan warren was the warren of fire, which was strongly linked to life, wheras now the tellan warren after the ritual would seem to be corrupted and more aspected to dust/death.

[Mcflury]

well, you could describe a corrupted warren as a 'broken' version of what it used to be, no? Anyways, we all agree: T'lan means it's fucked up somehow