[magicrealist]

I have 50 pages to go in deadhousegates, and I'm very confused to how non-mages become asecendants ( like dancer and the old emperor.)

Is this explained in later novels, or did I miss something?

[Zanth13]

Here check out this thread it should answer your question, I didnt scan it to much for spoilers but the first couple of post seem safe enough and they explain it well... actually let me just post a quote so youd ont have to worry about spoilers... but these things will get explained a little as the books go on.


actually let me just edit it myself to save you from secrets you are not yet ready for. the following are quotes from several formites who I will not give credit too.

Quote

*Opens the book of lundin and intones in a deep, chanting voice* "The paths to ascendancy are many. There are little if any 'ingredients' that must present. Ascendancy seems to be the result of need as well as deed combined with the right sort of events taking place at the right time. Though neither of these are completly necessary, they seem to have an effect..
__________________

*continues from morgoth*

with a big enough population, the odds that someone will be at the right place at the right time with the right aptitude will increase and thereby gives rise to ascendends.. and when enough ascendends occur, a champion among ascendends will rise..

------------------------------------------------------------------------
'The paths to ascendency are many, and some are more subtle than others.' or something like that. Baruk, GotM.

Point being, there are apparently a LOT of ways to Ascend, but that doesn't mean that just anyone can do it. Plus, on the whole power-draws-power basis, people already on the path to Ascendency are that much more likely to obtain additional opportunities...

Spoiler

so you have Stormy, apparently already a Sheidl Anvil to Fener or someone, being bad-a$$ enough to survive a horrible wound being healed by Heboric's jolly-jade-giant-tainted hands, bonded to a Tlan Imass because he was in the right place at the right time having survived the earlier events, passing thru Tellan and being bbq'd by an Elder God/draconic Imass/whatever she is, and THEN hanging out on a sorcery-ridden boat for a few weeks. And even then, he's not 'completely' ascended as far as we can see in TB.

Coltaine united the wickan tribes, led a relatively successful rebellion against Kellanved, and then

Spoiler

the whole Chain of Dogs thing

... the man had surpassed 'mere' human by all expectations, and that was enough to start him on the road.

As for the Bridgeburners... Raraku, everything after,

Spoiler

Tanno song, buried in Moon's SPawn, MoD's blessing... that's a LOT.

But not every mage is an ascendent, nor is every soletaken apparently.

So in summary, it's complicated.

- Abyss, complicates things.

[Dolorous Menhir]

There's still a hefty spoiler in your quoted section, Xanth. Relating to something that happens in MoI.

Regarding the question: it doesn't have an easy answer.

But Kellanved and Dancer were mages, almost certainly users of the human warrens of Meanas & Rashan.

[Zanth13]

Dolorous Menhir;221962 said:

There's still a hefty spoiler in your quoted section, Xanth. Relating to something that happens in MoI.

Regarding the question: it doesn't have an easy answer.

But Kellanved and Dancer were mages, almost certainly users of the human warrens of Meanas & Rashan.

ooops... think I fixed it... anything else??


and Dancer was a mage?? I always thought of him as just a uber assassin...then got his power up with Godhood.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Sure, that was the spoiler I was thinking of, the Moon's Spawn bit. Don't worry about it, I posted a serious spoiler myself earlier this week.

Dancer was a Shadow Dancer when mortal, like

Spoiler

Lostara Yil.

Hence the name. They definitely use Meanas/Rashan. He was not just a mundane assassin like Rallick Nom, though I don't have any explicit proof of that. It just makes sense.

[magicrealist]

I just finished deadhousegates...

The thing the bothers me about it is probably stupid. Who or what gets to decide when you've ascended. I assume when you completly master a warren you would asscend, but how would a non mage, such as Coltaine ascend. Does some elder god look at his amazing almsot inhuman feats and decided he deserves to ascend. Is it some elder spirit?

Thanks for the posts, it did clear the mist up a good bit.

Btw, deadhousegates kicked ass. I can't wait to conitnue the story of the 7 cities.

[Zanth13]

magicrealist;222001 said:

I just finished deadhousegates...

The thing the bothers me about it is probably stupid. Who or what gets to decide when you've ascended. I assume when you completely master a warren you would ascend, but how would a non mage, such as Coltaine ascend. Does some elder god look at his amazing almost inhuman feats and decided he deserves to ascend. Is it some elder spirit?

Thanks for the posts, it did clear the mist up a good bit.

Btw, deadhousegates kicked ass. I can't wait to continue the story of the 7 cities.

Well im almost positive it doesn’t rely on some elder god/spirit to decide who ascends... though said being could help a someone ascend on an individual basis...

the main thing to remember is that "there are many paths to ascendancy"
so there is no defined way to do it... or even what "it" is the ascendants seem to vary in ability and power so it’s kinda of an open ended thing...
I just tell myself that an Ascendant is just a word to describe an uber powerful being... it help with the understanding..

[Dolorous Menhir]

magicrealist;222001 said:

I just finished deadhousegates...

The thing the bothers me about it is probably stupid. Who or what gets to decide when you've ascended. I assume when you completly master a warren you would asscend, but how would a non mage, such as Coltaine ascend. Does some elder god look at his amazing almsot inhuman feats and decided he deserves to ascend. Is it some elder spirit?

Thanks for the posts, it did clear the mist up a good bit.

Btw, deadhousegates kicked ass. I can't wait to conitnue the story of the 7 cities.

Ascendancy is not decided by some external agency. There is no Ascendancy Determination Authority or anything like that. It's just a level that individuals reach, and they do so in many ways.

For example, dying seems to have been a crucial stage in the ascension of Kellanved and Dancer. Rake and others like him were essentially born/created ascendant. The passage through the warren of fire has taken Gesler, Stormy & Truth close to ascension. I like to think that Coltaine ascended because of the trust placed in him by so many, and the pressures he bore.

It's like getting a suntan. Sit in the sun for a while, and your skin changes colour.

In Erikson's world, you become extremely powerful and/or achieve something insanely hardcore, and you become an ascendant.

[Crow Clan Baby]

Dolorous Menhir;222006 said:

Ascendancy is not decided by some external agency. There is no Ascendancy Determination Authority or anything like that. It's just a level that individuals reach, and they do so in many ways.

For example, dying seems to have been a crucial stage in the ascension of Kellanved and Dancer. Rake and others like him were essentially born/created ascendant. The passage through the warren of fire has taken Gesler, Stormy & Truth close to ascension. I like to think that Coltaine ascended because of the trust placed in him by so many, and the pressures he bore.

It's like getting a suntan. Sit in the sun for a while, and your skin changes colour.

In Erikson's world, you become extremely powerful and/or achieve something insanely hardcore, and you become an ascendant.

That's just what I was going to say! 100% agreed.

Ascendancy seems to be just a natural part of life, something that happens (and seems reasonably common, too), a stage of spiritual evolution, or whatever.

If you think on it in terms of Buddhist striving for Nirvana (not literally though, Ascendancy and Nirvana are totally different things) rather than as a "reward for doing stuff" you'll be on the right track.

It's something that comes from within the individual (although it can be helped or hindered by various external factors) rather than something that's "given" from outside.

Spoiler

There does seem to be some measure of a capability for powerful figures to influence it though - witness Kallor's curse

[Dolorous Menhir]

Wanted to clarify something in my post - Coltaine did not ascend, but he was described as in the process of ascending during DG. He was on one of the many routes to ascension, but he did not complete it.

[Aptorian]

Perhaps it should be mentioned that being an ascendant doesn't actually mean that much, in a sense of power.

The only thing we know any ascendant has in common with another, seems to be a strong vitality, perhaps immortality. Everything else seems to be a flavor of the person. Strength, magical aspects, speed, everything seems interchangable.

I think the word you want to use about an ascendant is potent.

About Dancer, this is from NoK but I don't count it as a spoiler. Apparently the shadowcult was run by Dancer, not Kellanved or at least they ran it together. So yes, Dancer is atuned to shadow.

[magicrealist]

thanks guys, you've settled my unease. I guess it could be described in some ways as the puberty of power.

Moi is kicking ass so far.