[cerveza_fiesta]

Ok, the ultimate battle of wits in RG: Tanal vs Karos.

Karos thought of tanal as a useless narrow-sighted little wanker that had no idea what the "bigger picture" was all about and didn't have the mental capacity to ever achieve greatness. Then he was defeated by an (arguably) unfair puzzle and allowed himself to be driven insane by it.

Tanal thought of Karos as an over-achieving conceited a-hole, and figured that he was outwitting karos with his seeming lack of wits, constantly scheming in the background

So who was right in the end? I mean they both got pwnd, but which one do you think was the victor in the wits battle?

[Skywalker]

Tehol!

victor in any battle of wits

[cerveza_fiesta]

tanal not tehol, as in Karos' right hand man

[Clip]

There was no battle of wits between the two, Tanal was Karos' right hand man. They both had flaws and both fell because of an obssesion: Karos with the puzzle and Tanal with what's-her-name.

Tanal tried to take advantage of Karos' obsession with the puzzle to free what's-her-name, but even he was a Patriotist, and even if he though his master was insane, they never thought, because Tanal was just a thug.

[Skywalker]

cerveza_fiesta;221237 said:

tanal not tehol, as in Karos' right hand man

No no no... Tehol! Because Tehol always wins... even in arguments he doesn't take part in

[cerveza_fiesta]

sky_walker;221241 said:

No no no... Tehol! Because Tehol always wins... even in arguments he doesn't take part in

oh, yeah. Good point.

He did kind of win that part at the end when people wanted his head on a pike and then all of a sudden they wanted him to be emperor. How did all that happen again? I was reeling too much from trull / schilas / bh attack to comprehend the last couple of chapters there fully.

[Banana]

The rat catchers guild placed people in the mob to have them start cheering for Tehol once the coins started dropping.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Banana;221244 said:

The rat catchers guild placed people in the mob to have them start cheering for Tehol once the coins started dropping.

right, thanks.

So yeah, tanal was a bit of a pervy thug, but I have to admit I figured he had something up his sleeve the whole book. The way Karos ripped on him for being stupid and dull, i figured SE would turn Tanal into some kind of cool mastermind in the last couple chapters just for fun. Have him solve the puzzle and make Karos stab himself or something cool like that.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

I feel that if it had been left to the two of them, Karos would have continued to boss Tanal around. I know he was an bit of a twat, but Karos was cool in his own way, Tanal was just a nonce.

[Mentalist]

heh.. my impression of Tanal was, midway through the book he was softening down, then his prof obcession got stolen before HE could free her... and that kinda drove him in the wrong direction...

[cerveza_fiesta]

The Tyrant Lizard;221252 said:

I feel that if it had been left to the two of them, Karos would have continued to boss Tanal around. I know he was an bit of a twat, but Karos was cool in his own way, Tanal was just a nonce.

For sure. The Tanal POVs definitely made me think there was more to him, but in the end, he was just another wanker that got offed in a SE novel.

Any you're right, Karos was kinda cool in his own way. It takes a special kind of evil to do the kind of things he did. You have to respect it in a way. Same way one would respect a knight for leading a just and honorable life and always doing good, you gotta respect Karos's wholehearted devotion to being a evil conniving bastard. He even (incorrectly) thought he was bringing about the downfall of the Letherii economy, tried to subvert Triban Gnol and figured out Tehol's plan.

[Aptorian]

Actually you have:

Chancellor and Sirryn

Invigilator and Tanal

I didn't like/understand the need for these parts of the Lether story being so elaborate. They are both much the same stories and people, but it is interesting to compare them.

Both the Invigilator and the Chancellor were good at what they did. Both seemed to have a wast understanding of the people and their position, yet both seemed blind to their own weaknesses, their arrogance making them ignorant. The invigilator worked in local invironments while the Chancellor handled foreign affairs and Edur relations.

I think The Concubine, The Scholar and Tehols meeting with the Invigilator proved that the Invigilator was in fact pretty stupid, just a simple thug good at what he did nurturing grand illusions of him self and the world.

The Chancellor was as sneaky and slippery as Mallick Rel but as competent as any person. Just a cruel, powermunger(sp?)

Now Tanal and Sirryn as henchmen were different people. Sirryn was as narrorminded and uninventive as Tanal but he seemed to worship the chancellor. Tanal feared Invictad and admired what he did but he hated him and dreamt of killing him. But he ultimatly lacked the will to finish the Invigilator and if one of the last Invigilator POVs is true then he was always a step ahead of Tanal.

Both the Chancellor, Sirryn and Tanal seemed like pervs, dominating and destroying people sexually. In the case of Sirryn it seemed a matter of brutal lust for dominance, for Tanal it seemed a conduit for the pressure of the Invigilators own dominance. The chancellor is strange, I think it all reaches back to what the Errant did with him when he was young. The Invigilator on the other hand seemed asexual, perhaps caused by the Invigilator fearing vulnerability.

I have no idea why I typed all this.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Aptorian;221605 said:

Actually you have:

Chancellor and Sirryn

Invigilator and Taal

I didn't like/understand the need for these parts of the Lether story being so elaborate. They are both much the same stories and people, but it is interesting to compare them.

To be honest, their stories unto themselves are inconsequential. Its more how SE uses these minor characters to tell much greater stories. During all the instances that we see Triban Gnol, he's dealing with the emperor and helping to advance the story about rhulad's insanity, and the letherii effort to undermine the edur authority thought subvert acts.

The instances where we see Karos Invictad, SE often comments on the dealings of the patriotists and how they are used to intimidate and subdue the letherii populace under the guise of peacekeeping and traitor-routing. He personified everything that the letherii populace feared in their government.

The tanal and Sirryn things weren't as necessary for sure. Tehol's scholar / friend lady (somebody please post her name) would have been just as useful if she didn't get raped and tortured at all and Sirryn didn't need to be there, since any old red-shirt could have killed Trull. They just added some flavor to the mix in RG, helping to reinforce the overall tragic theme of the book plus telling some minor details in their POVs.

[Ringthane]

Janath was the scholar I believe.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Ringthane;221615 said:

Janath was the scholar I believe.

thank you. Have my paltry rep boost for allowing me to stop typing "whassername" or "Tehol's scholar / lady friend "

[Mentalist]

Patriotists added Atmosphere.. they served to reinforce
a) Rhulad's madness and what it spawned
Tehol's reasoning that his society desrved to collapse.

What I loved about the aforementioned 2 (not the chancellor, since i found out that he poisoned the king + Brys, i hate his guts irrationally), is htat both of them seem to have their motives. Karos truly believes in the grandeur of Letherii, and act the way a stereotypical Letherii is supposed to act for his own best-interest. Tanal is even more complex--If I remember correctly, he fully meant to let Janal go the first time when she was prisoner, and when she escaped him and the n got recaptured, he went all mental on her. Prior to Bugg taking away his chance of freeing Janal and proving (at least, to himself), that he could be a decent man, there was a chance of him repenting, and rebelling against Karos in a positive way. Afterwards, he had no good deeds to justify to himself his own deviation from the cruelty associated with working as a patriotist, so he accepted that he was a sadistical moron.