[cerveza_fiesta]

I don't remember anybody discussing the other magical machine on lether: The Cedance. Basically the big room with a bridge over top with self-shifting tile floor where the tiles are the "cards" representing the holds and their arrangement predicts future/destiny (essentially). I pulled this quote from the MT forum "cedance" topic:

Quote

It says - Brys POV - "this was the power of the Letherii, the Cedance, the voice of destiny, a thing terrible beyond comprehension -"

Lether (both city and continent) is a major magical focus and a "pocket" where the elder focres still exist and have power. Its the location of Iccy's mysterious machine, the location of one of the last remnants of the First Empire, has wierd power loops cousing through it, Jaghut rituals, mages who use hold magic, a fragment of KuEm, the Cedance itself, ghosts that don't go to hood's realm and Elder gods walking about and messing with people and indirectly causing deaths (*sniff* trull *single tear*).

Like the parts of Iccy's machine that the liberty consign guy (name?) discovered, the cedance too started acting funny when Iccy came closer. I know the standard explanation comes from the Errant in his POV. He guessed his loss of sensitivity to the cedance's movements was due to his loss of worshippers and power. It was however indicated that was perfectly able to use it earlier before the edur conquest in the days of the king when he was consort...and his worshipper base (or lack thereof) wouldn't have changed much as a result of the conquest.

I wonder then if the cedance draws on the same power, and perhaps was meant to function as a part of Iccy's machine. We know:

1-The cedance functions somewhat like the DOD cards in future / destiny prediction.
2-Death only came to lether after Iccy tried to activate his machine.
3-We also know that Iccy's machine sucked memories out of the living people in Lether.

Under the assumption that the same power source is responsible for holding ghosts to lether in the first place, do you think it's reasonable that Iccy's machine, the cedance and power holding the ghosts could all be part of some uber machine that Iccy intended to use to link past present and future in single massive power infusion that would turn him into some kind of omniscient god -- hence the "if krul can do it" line.

Maybe I'm way out here, but there's just too many powerful things in lether for them not to be even kinda related.

[cerveza_fiesta]

also, I know this is rehashing my earlier posts on the machine a bit...just trying to bring the cedance into the whole thing

[Flawed]

I think the power behind the Cedance will remain an enigma like the Deck of Dragons. I expect that it is probably something to do with each card being aspected to the place or hold / warren / person it is aspected to and draws a little power from it to " turn on " as it were.

The Dead started going through to Hood when the Azath died and the ritual that Gothos made to help Killa and Mael started unwinding, this was before Iccy coming to see his machine.

I think the frustration the Errant had with not being able to perceive the Cedance as well now, was mainly due to his current power levels and status. He gave up being the Holds master to become a God. giving up the right and foresight probably naturally given to such a master. I think this is what he is referring to when he is voicing how miffed he is at the whole,.. " what the fudge is happening to the Cedence and where the hell is my dinner " ....part of the book.

Where was that bit you ask? It was just after that bit where that chap did that thing.

[Aptorian]

Like Flaw I don't think it's machienry driving the cedance, rather it's just magical power.

Remember Deadsmell remarks that ceda is just a bastardization of cedance which is an old ritual.

When the Errant plunged his dagger covered in mortal blood into the cedance was it in a forgotten part of the eternal domicile or was it the cedance room Kuru Quan used?

[cerveza_fiesta]

Flawed;216221 said:

The Dead started going through to Hood when the Azath died and the ritual that Gothos made to help Killa and Mael started unwinding, this was before Iccy coming to see his machine.

Was it? Did that actually happen in MT? I thought it was in RG that hood finally went to Lether, but I read MT and RG pretty close together and the blurred a bit.

EDIT:

Quote

When the Errant plunged his dagger covered in mortal blood into the cedance was it in a forgotten part of the eternal domicile or was it the cedance room Kuru Quan used?

oooh good point. I figured there was only one cedance and that it was unique. Perhaps its something you can move, or at least reconstruct in another location.

[Aptorian]

cerveza_fiesta;216224 said:

oooh good point. I figured there was only one cedance and that it was unique. Perhaps its something you can move, or at least reconstruct in another location.

I figured that there were patterns scribled or chisled into temples and basements everywhere.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Aptorian;216234 said:

I figured that there were patterns scribled or chisled into temples and basements everywhere.

You can definitely chip tiles anyplace, somewhat like how Paran draws patterns in the dirt to maks "cards" when he takes down the pannion buzzard thingies.

Is the cedance just a big set of tiles though or is it kind of a more serious form of the tiles, with some serious permanent magic driving it. This would be unlike the standard tiles and cards that just rely on the magical skill and sensitivity of the user.

[Mentalist]

hmm.. as far as I understood, the Cedance was just the deck of Tiles.. only really-really big... and the tiles would shift themselves to reflect the situation within the Holds
Also, it's worth noting on the whole "Errant re-becoming a God cuz Fener told him that Beast Hold is back" thing: Did the Beast Hold evolve into the House of War? because the impression that i got from it was that the Original Beast hold equivalent to the Warren of the Imass, while the new one is the Warren of the house of War, creatred by Silverfox to contain the Beast thrones...
Also, when Ceda was preparing the demon-trapping ritual, was he on the floor of the Eternal Domicile or in the Old Palace where the original cedance was?

[cerveza_fiesta]

kud13;216255 said:

hmm.. as far as I understood, the Cedance was just the deck of Tiles.. only really-really big... and the tiles would shift themselves to reflect the situation within the Holds
Also, it's worth noting on the whole "Errant re-becoming a God cuz Fener told him that Beast Hold is back" thing: Did the Beast Hold evolve into the House of War? because the impression that i got from it was that the Original Beast hold equivalent to the Warren of the Imass, while the new one is the Warren of the house of War, creatred by Silverfox to contain the Beast thrones...
Also, when Ceda was preparing the demon-trapping ritual, was he on the floor of the Eternal Domicile or in the Old Palace where the original cedance was?

If the cedance is just a deck, why wouldnt the ceda just use a...deck?

It seemed to me the cedance must be something special or add some greater understanding to the whole tiles thing. That brys line from MT

"this was the power of the Letherii, the Cedance, the voice of destiny, a thing terrible beyond comprehension -"

suggests pretty strongly the cedance is some kind of focus. I also thought it said the Errant was tooling around in the halls of the old imperial palace when he was looking at the cedance, but I might be wrong.

[Mentalist]

Well, first of all, possibly since the Cedance tiles move themselves, that meants Ceda has no need to spend energy focusing to divine them, since the tiles arrange themselves (something obviously caused by a stronger underlyinf force). Also, they allow access to hidden places--recall Brys being sent to find Mael's retirement home for old gods.
Aside from that, since letherii relied on their mages and the Ceda was the strongest of those and he was the keeper of teh Cedance, it's quite possible that ppl in Letheras started coming up with legends about it. But Brys is no mage, so he could just be a victim of ignorance. (this refers to the whole "thing terrible beyond comprehension" line)

[cerveza_fiesta]

Brys was buds with the Ceda, you'd think he had some knowledge of its functioning or capability at least. He's too close to the whole deal and the Ceda to be completely ignorant of the Cedance. The thing that got me wondering about it was the "...the power of the letherii" part. That and the way its talked about in MT makes it seem much more than just a big set of automatic tiles". I got the same feeling reading about it as I got reading about the big wheel thingy on the border of the edur lands and letherii country. A kind of ancient-ness or old-power-iness.

Makes you think though (see quote above) if the cedance a power source or is it contributing to their empire's political and military power by giving them a measure of prescience?