[Kindly]

One question leaps out of the pages of Reaper's Gale like a Mexican Jumping Bean...Is Kilmadaros Goddess of the Forkrul Assail (FA) or the Thelomen Tartheno Toblakai (TTT)?

Evidence for TTT
1. She is massive. I mean HUGE. me saying that in capital letters doesnt really get across the scale of her. shes got like a 18ft shoulder span
2. Gothos? says her children are lost in Wu. This could be taken to mean either. The TTT are scattered across the globe and much reduced (Teblor, Tartheno, Fenn etc)
3. I think she is (conclusive proof if ever there was any, sic)

Evidence for FA
1. Multi Jointed- just like the descriptions of the two FA we've encountered so far
2. Same pale skin as the FA
3. Gothos says her children are lost. this could mean that the FA were meant to bring real peace instead of killing everyone. or it could mean something else

There are my thoughts yours would be very much appreciated.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Further evidence for the FA:

Knuckles (the person Bruthen Trana meets in the underwater Azath) is almost certainly an FA, and he calls Kilmandaros "Mother".

[Kindly]

Dolorous Menhir;210511 said:

Further evidence for the FA:

Knuckles (the person Bruthen Trana meets in the underwater Azath) is almost certainly an FA, and he calls Kilmandaros "Mother".

Could just be a title like "mother dark" etc. clutching at straws now lol

[Zanth13]

I think the general consenus is FA.... though noone knows for sure yet what she is.

Knuckles watching over her is another indicator that she is the mother of FA IMO.

She used her children as a threat and though the TTT are powerful (judging by Karsa who isnt even full blooded) I dont think they produce the same amount of dread that sicking the FA on someone would.


- There are many Killy threads so you can get some good info from them by using the search key...

EDIT: good lord you guys post fast lol, it went from 0 replies to 2 in the time it took me to type the above crap.

[Kindly]

[QUOTE=xanth13;210513]


- There are many Killy threads so you can get some good info from them by using the search key...

QUOTE]

my search button is broke

[Kindly]

this is unrelated sorry but ever since ive joined ive wondered what the difference is between rep and rep power. answers on a postcard please

[Zanth13]

http://malazanworld.com/forums/showthread....ght=Kilmandaros

http://malazanworld.com/forums/showthread....ght=Kilmandaros

here is a few, if the links work....

[ch'arlz]

Kindly;210514 said:

my search button is broke

If you search from the Malazan Forums page, http://www.malazanwo...orums/index.php? , it works OK altho the results are entire threads rather than specific messages. You can also search with Google as one of the oldtimers here pointed out.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Kindly;210516 said:

this is unrelated sorry but ever since ive joined ive wondered what the difference is between rep and rep power. answers on a postcard please

Reputation: the net reputation a member has accumulated.

Rep power: the ability of the poster to change the reputation score of another.

For example, my "power" is 64, so I can add 64 to any member's reputation, or remove 32 (can only subtract half of your power, rounded down).

A member's rep power is determined by a number of factors, including:

length of membership
post count
total reputation

It doesn't mean much though.

[Dravon]

Well, i have thought for a long time now that Kilm is Icy's mother and since we now know icy has TTT blood....

Though i agree she is definitly the FA's "Mother". Maybe she had a hand in both races origins.

[Zanth13]

Dravon;210562 said:

Well, i have thought for a long time now that Kilm is Icy's mother and since we now know icy has TTT blood....

From what i understood he just didnt have TTT blood he was half TTT.(base on Karsa's POV)

which imo would rule out Killy as his mother.... cuz even if she turns out to be Madre of the TTT she deff is not one.

[acarl]

I thought there were a couple other hints in the prologue. These are stretching it a bit though.

1) She fights with her fists; from what we've seen of the FA they fight with their hands as well, this is mostly negated by the fact that you problably cant make a metal sword 12 feet long but as I said I'm stretching it.

2) The parralel between the FA bringing "peace" to wars and the way Kilamandaros goes about pacifying KE

So I'm gonna go with FA.

[Coldsnap]

Its a tough one, of course, in that ICCY is from Gothos and some 'overgrown hag', Karsa recognizes something Toblakai in Iccy, and the only overgrown hag we know of so far is Killy. I remember in one book there was a mention of trell, toblakai and jhag being all descendants of Jaghut... is this true?

[tiam]

Dravon;210562 said:

Well, i have thought for a long time now that Kilm is Icy's mother and since we now know icy has TTT blood....

Though i agree she is definitly the FA's "Mother". Maybe she had a hand in both races origins.

I agree with this line of thought. it more than feasible that each EG spawned a race which then spawned a race. EG would also explain Iccys power. Also Malaclypse said iccys mum isnt TTT or FA. So this makes sense that it would be a merging or mother of the two

[Flawed]

I always thought that Kilm is the Mother of all the origional races. She has trait of them all and there have been various hints and links to all the old races.

Kilm being Iccy's mother is a new one on me and is quite an interesting thought!

[Mr.Warren]

the way i imagined the large hairy woman god was kinda like half way between the missing link type eres and a TTT, cos shes all big and hairy.

i don't think the fact she was called "mother" had much bearing on her being a FA though, it could mean anything, she could be Burns, mother for example, and it'd still make sense.

Remember how fenrer was described like, big and hairy too with tusks? who else have tusks, who else is hairy?

if there is a ref to Killy having tusks you'd have to think 'connection'
but you know, things to think about during wild theories, bear in mind she is a god, and well could be bloody anything she wanted too in some respects.

[Cougar]

I really can't see the TTT link to Kilmandaros, I would say that she is definitely a more primitive looking version of the Fokrul Assail, whether she is their direct biological mother or created them in a more abstract way, or is a surviving ascendant member of the evolutionary precursor to the FA (and is therefore refered to as 'mother' by Knuckles/Setchul Lath(sp) as an honorific)we don't know. However for me the description seals it:

Kilmandaros (in RG prolouge)
"The naked creature that traversed the rough path formed by the fallen dragons was a match to their mass, yet bound to the earth, and it walked on two bowed legs, the thighs thick as thousand-year old trees. The width of its shoulders was equal to the length of a Tartheno Toblakai’s height; from a thick neck hidden beneath a mane of glossy black hair, the frontal portion of the head was thrust forward -- brow, cheek-bones and jaw, and its deep-set eyes revealed black pupils surrounded in opalescent white. The huge arms were disproportionately long, the enormous hands almost scraping the ground. Its breasts were large, pendulous and pale. As it strode past the battered, rotting carcasses, the motion of its gait was strangely fluid, not at all lumbering, and each limb was revealed to possess extra joints.
Skin the hue of sun-bleached bone, darkening to veined red at the ends of the creature’s arms, bruises surrounding the knuckles, a lattice-work of cracked flesh exposing the bone here and there. The hands had seen damage, the result of delivering devastating blows."

Serenity
"a tall figure [Serenity], spectral, its skin white, its hair pallid yellow and hanging in limp strands. It was wearing a leather harness that looked wrinkled and blackened with rot. There was something strange about its limbs....it possessed extra joints in the arms and the legs, and there was some kind of hinge across the creature’s breastbone. Its motion was oddly loose".

Udinas' dream
"a tall figure. Skin like bleached vellum [off white], limbs too long and angular with too many joints. Black, frosted eyes, an expression of faint surprise on its narrow, arched features"

for me the descriptions are too similar for their to be any doubt, they have the same joints which we haven't seen anywhere else, the smae eyes and the same skin, not sure about the breastbone, but also a similar propensity to fight with the hands not weapons. The description of Kil' seems to echo the description of a neanderthal or earlier intelligent ape (albeit bigger) in comparision to a modern human.

The only links to the TTT would seem to be size (although she would be far larger than even the biggest TTT) and the descrition of her shoulders as being as large as a TT, which puts them at around 8-9 foot (Karsa is c. 8 foot, think SE confirmed this, to Pat if memory serves) Skin colour is wrong, joints are wrong, eyes are different etc to the TTT etc. I can't see any reason to believe she is any relation to the TTT. There are plenty of unaccounted for elder gods etc that could be associated with TTT.

[dawnkiller]

I agree, the joints and fight-style (plus the Pacify Violently philosophy) are what made me think her connection would be FA in my original reading. As for the gods of the TTT -- we've seen them, in a way, in the "gods" Ublala Pung feared back in MT, right? Memory may be on the fritz here, but they struck me as more of the ancestor-veneration type, like the Rhivi. Additionally, the Seven that Karsa's group paid homage to were actually T'lan Imass. Granted his tribes were far, far removed from whatever their people's original mythology may have been, but that suggests some kind of pantheonic tendency rather than one source-god (if any).

Kind of odd random thought -- I was thinking back, and while we've seen Jaghut associated with or occupying/ensnared by Azath (and FA, if you count Kettle), not to mention plenty of Soletaken, I don't think we've seen TTT or Imass.

[Dravon]

The TTT that were in MT were trapped in a azath=)

[dawnkiller]

Oh, duh. : ) Thanks. (Maybe I should reread more of MT than just Udinaas' Crazy Crazy Visions one of these days.)