[Duvodas]

Hey there,

I'm re-reading MOI for the second time around, and I'm a little bit confused with something. In GOTM, we find that the Bridgeburners have been almost literally whipped out of the map, just a few remaining (Quick, Kalam, Fiddler, Mallet, Sorry, Trotts, etc.), but then in the beginning of MOI we find that that are more Bridgeburners than the ones who left for Darujhistan. (Spiddler, Picker, just to name a few).

Now, my question is, if Whiskeyjack and his squad left Pale for a mission in Darujhistan by orders of the Empress, who also wanted them killed. Why didn't everybody go? I mean, it would make sense that if the Empress wanted all Bridgeburners killed in Darujhistan, she would have sent ALL of them there instead of sending the 9th only and leaving the 7th in Pale.

Of course, we don't have any info. of the 7th squad until MIO, which makes me think that they might have been recruited in that two-month period between GOTM and MIO, and I think Paran talks about recruitment. But then there is the issue of the Deck of Dragons table in Brood's tent, which the Bridgeburners steal, for it was stolen from them by the Mott Irregulars in some other campaign. So if they're new, how would they know about the table? Maybe Whiskeyjack told them....

I'm going in circles with this...lol. But I still hold to the idea that Erikson should have provided some background for these new Bridgeburners.

[Folken]

Empress never wanted the Bridgeburners killed off...it was only WJ. You've read Memories think back to the conversation between Dujek and WJ.

And there were no new Bridgeburners recruited, Sorry would be the newest of the squad

[Duvodas]

Well, the only thing I can think of right now is the scene in GOTM in which Whiskeyjack tells Quick and the others, before they go into Darujhistan, to follow his plans so that they don't all get killed. Therefore that made me think of Laseen wanting all of them to die...

[Folken]

Yes WJ comes to the realization in Memories that he was the primary target, being a clear rival to the throne and not the Bridgeburners.

This is what I remember from Memories, keep reading, or skip ahead to the scene where WJ and Dujek are talking in his tent, this probably takes place prior to the meeting with Brood and company.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Duvodas;207023 said:

Of course, we don't have any info. of the 7th squad until MIO

Blend, Picker, Antsy - they are all in, or referred to in, GotM. It is Picker who looks after Paran's corpse, and is shocked when he starts to draw breath again. Antsy is listed alongside Whiskeyjack among the legendary figures of the Bridgeburners.

As Jen'isand Rul notes, Whiskeyjack was supposedly the main target, not the Bridgeburners as a whole. That's all contradicted in MoI though, when Tayschrenn claims that Laseen never had any such plan, and the Bridgeburners were in the tunnels under Pale, where so many died, for their own safety.

[The Shorn]

[QUOTE=Duvodas;207023]Hey there,
I'm re-reading MOI for the second time around, and I'm a little bit confused with something. In GOTM, we find that the Bridgeburners have been almost literally whipped out of the map, just a few remaining (Quick, Kalam, Fiddler, Mallet, Sorry, Trotts, etc.), but then in the beginning of MOI we find that that are more Bridgeburners than the ones who left for Darujhistan. (Spiddler, Picker, just to name a few). QUOTE]

Haha...Spiddler?? Is that the bridgeburner who got his name by urinating?
Sry to make fun but that makes me laugh! nice work!
Or did u mean to misstype his name?... in which case i feel stupid.

[Kurt Montandon]

Dolorous Menhir;207067 said:

As Jen'isand Rul notes, Whiskeyjack was supposedly the main target, not the Bridgeburners as a whole. That's all contradicted in MoI though, when Tayschrenn claims that Laseen never had any such plan, and the Bridgeburners were in the tunnels under Pale, where so many died, for their own safety.

Actually, those aren't mutually contradictory. It's possible that Tayschrenn and the Empress wanted to bump off Whiskeyjack in an non-suspicious way (a random casualty of battle), but wanted to preserve the Bridgeburners as a whole.

On the other hand, I suspect that Tayschrenn may have just been going along with the Adjunct.

On the gripping hand, it's quite likely that Tay's part in the whole matter is just a GotMism, and it was really only the Adjunct that thought Whiskeyjack needed to die, and we can retcon it that the Empress and Tay just wanted him kept in check, as a valuable resource.

[Aptorian]

My impression is that Tay has undergone some kind of retcon, since he was described as an unbelievably ruthless and cunning mage in GotM and later on he's just a well meaning, ex high priest that can never decide when he's supposed to step in.

I mean hell, he was willing to rip open Paran and Sail's minds out of pure speculation if we're to believe Sails character assesment.

[Vengeance]

I was under the impression that Tay was second only in power to ST. I mean when he unveals at the end of MOI Kovalt asks herself how her lord could have stood against him alone. I continue under the impression that Tay never wanted to kill off Whiskeyjack, after all he was there at the beginning standing with ST. So he should have been able to tell if Whiskeyjack was a threat. I think that the hole rip open the mind thing with Paran and Sail was just evidence of how much stress he was under. He was having to deal with the after math of Pale and then a Hound comes crashing in and as far as he knows Sail managed to drive it off. Evidence of that kind of power that he wasn't aware of might have left his confidence shaken a little bit. Plus he was having to run an occupation, not something that he was very good at or wanted to do.

[Duvodas]

[QUOTE=The Shorn;207180][QUOTE=Duvodas;207023]Hey there,
I'm re-reading MOI for the second time around, and I'm a little bit confused with something. In GOTM, we find that the Bridgeburners have been almost literally whipped out of the map, just a few remaining (Quick, Kalam, Fiddler, Mallet, Sorry, Trotts, etc.), but then in the beginning of MOI we find that that are more Bridgeburners than the ones who left for Darujhistan. (Spiddler, Picker, just to name a few). QUOTE]

Haha...Spiddler?? Is that the bridgeburner who got his name by urinating?
Sry to make fun but that makes me laugh! nice work!
Or did u mean to misstype his name?... in which case i feel stupid.[/QUOTE]

Feel free to feel stupid, no shame, for it was a typo.

In the other hand, thank you guys for throwing some light this way. I mostly agree with what you're saying, but I still believe that Laseen wanted all the Bridgeburners dead. I remember somewhere in GOTM that it's said that Laseen wants to kill all the soldiers who worked under Kellanved; I might be exaggerating, however. Maybe she just wanted to kill all the high ranking officials...

[Imperium Corruo]

something to keep in mind, is that just because a certain character or group of characters feels that Laseen is targeting all of the Bridgeburners, does not mean that this is acctually the truth of the matter. To get technical it is called an unreliable narrator, and I think you encounter this a lot in the Malazan books.

the point is that the Bridgeburners in GOTM felt as though Laseen was trying to kill them all off, so this how they speculated to each other. If we later hear from another character that Laseen's goal was something else. That is another side of the story to consider. It does not even mean that the second theing we hear is "what really happened," it is just another understanding.

The reader can take all of these little revelations and decide what they think really happened. This is how I look at these thing at least.