[farengi]

Any ideas as to who/what the demon trapped under the ice by the Jaghut ritual that Hannan Mosag and Feather Witch are trying to free is? Brys gives the guardians the name - which it seems is all they need to control it. From the brief descriptions, the Errant's warnings to Feather Witch, it seemed as if it was along the lines of Raest ... would cause mass destruction if freed. Also which Jaghut was it that trapped the demon? It clearly wasn't Gothos bec. the book mentions a female Jaghut ...

Shahab

[Locke Reaper]

It was one of the ancient gods of the ocean that the primative people of lether believed in. Remember the scene where tehol's brother(forget his name) found the pillars carved with forgotten name that he swore to remeber.

Well it was one of those monstrosities that hannan mosag usurped.

[Dolorous Menhir]

farengi;206342 said:

Any ideas as to who/what the demon trapped under the ice by the Jaghut ritual that Hannan Mosag and Feather Witch are trying to free is? Brys gives the guardians the name - which it seems is all they need to control it. From the brief descriptions, the Errant's warnings to Feather Witch, it seemed as if it was along the lines of Raest ... would cause mass destruction if freed. Also which Jaghut was it that trapped the demon? It clearly wasn't Gothos bec. the book mentions a female Jaghut ...

Shahab

It was the same demon/god that Hannan Mosag used against the Letherii in MT. It is an escapee or abductee from the underwater sanctuary for the nameless forgotten gods that Brys visits in MT, the place guarded by the Guardian.

When Hannan Mosag attacked the Lether capital with the nameless god, it was lured into a trap set jointly by Mael, the Ceda and the Huntress, a female Jaghut. That trap was the lake, which was frozen around the god.

Brys knew the names, and he passed they were passed onto Tehol at the end of MT. Hannan Mosag must have known the name, because that was how he commanded it in the first place.

As for the actual identity of this nameless god, I don't think we're supposed to know. It's never been given, and there were such a large number in Mael's underwater prison/nursing home that I don't think we can limit it to being one of the missing Elder Gods - by which I mean, the sea gods in that sanctuary are not Elder because there are too many of them.

[Abyss]

There are countless minor and major gods who are neither 'edler', nor 'modern'. The sea demon was one of those. I assumed that the WK found it because the CG sent him to the pillars and gave him the name to free and control it. Bear in mind that the gods we know are the ones who survived and have some form of significance or influence. Hosts of others have come and gone.

Whe one of the Letherii mages attacks the sea demon, he delves into it and realizes it's actually very old and very powerful.

Baseless speculation on my part, but Mael being who and what he is, the names on the pillars may all be gods associated with water or bodies of water.


- Abyss, beach bum.

[Aptorian]

More to the point, the nature of the Seademon is told in MT.

It was just a spirit that lived in a lake that tribes gave offerings to. Over time it grew big and fat and powerfull on all the blood and goods thrown into the lake.

Then came the floods, probably around the times of the Failing of Omotose Phellack. And the seas washed in over the lands that held the spirit. It was released from its tiny home and found it self lost and alone in the much larger and less comfortable sea. Now whether it still fed on seamen and ships after this is not known, but it#s probable that it starved in the bigger sea were noone knew it, eventually it was lost and it was written on the pillars in Maels warren.

[Mr.Warren]

dried up lake bed the awl fought on, ancient lake demon?
connection?

[Abyss]

Mr.Warren;208307 said:

dried up lake bed the awl fought on, ancient lake demon?
connection?

Clearly, the Crippled God is another reality's Ricki Lake.



- Abyss, thinks that's preferable to another reality's Geraldo.

[cerveza_fiesta]

I wonder if the demon is linked to the floating island. I remember there being a passage (forget which book) where crokus is coming up through the bottom of the island and there is talk about how there were countless bones and offerings thrown into one of the water-filled deep pits on the island and that the pit eventually acquired a spirit and a conscience because of the offerings.

Also I thought the island was another wandering fragment of KuEm (correct me if I'm wrong there), and the Tiste Edur come from KuEm. It could mean that the original denizens of the island (which probably wasn't a floating island before the shattering) were Tiste Edur and that the modern Tiste Edurs' ancestors originally created the spirit. KuEm was shattered, the island starts floating, the tiste Edur are scattered, the powerful water spirit is freed and without worshippers who remember him/her/it.

Could also be why Hanan Mosag was able to control it, if he found out about its existence through the CG (or whatever) and he is descended from the spirit's creators, then perhaps he is able to control it by becoming its sole worshipper. Kind of like how Feather Witch asserts some control over the Errant by becoming his priestess.

What do you think of that?

[cerveza_fiesta]

Aptorian;208302 said:

More to the point, the nature of the Seademon is told in MT.

It was just a spirit that lived in a lake that tribes gave offerings to. Over time it grew big and fat and powerfull on all the blood and goods thrown into the lake.

Then came the floods, probably around the times of the Failing of Omotose Phellack. And the seas washed in over the lands that held the spirit. It was released from its tiny home and found it self lost and alone in the much larger and less comfortable sea. Now whether it still fed on seamen and ships after this is not known, but it#s probable that it starved in the bigger sea were noone knew it, eventually it was lost and it was written on the pillars in Maels warren.

oooh, i remember that. I think my above post might have been a better tie-in, but I forgot about the lake spirit thing. You're right Apt

[cerveza_fiesta]

unless the lake they're talking about happens to be the sacrificial offering lake on the floating island, out of which the spirit escaped upon the shattering of KuEm...

Ok, I'll stop posting to myself here

[Aptorian]

I think the wide spread theory about Drift Avalii is that it's made by the KCCM. Now that I think of it I can't remember why.

Do you have a quote about the spirit that's fed with sacrifices on Drift Avalii? I remember there being wraiths or something speaking of the Mortal Sword of a thousand deaths and I remember Darist being afraid to waken something inside the island, but I don't remember any offerings to anything.

[farengi]

Another question - the two creatures/gods ... who're waiting at the lakefront for the demon to appear don't seem all that concerned about it, they think that they can handle it. Yet when Brys appears, they ask him the true name of the demon in a panicked sort of way -- so did they know all along that Brys was coming back, or did they have some other way of dealing with it? Apparently the demon must be pretty powerful for a Jaghut to have bound it under the ice and then to return when she notices her bindings have been tampered with ...

[Flawed]

farengi;209627 said:

Another question - the two creatures/gods ... who're waiting at the lakefront for the demon to appear don't seem all that concerned about it, they think that they can handle it. Yet when Brys appears, they ask him the true name of the demon in a panicked sort of way -- so did they know all along that Brys was coming back, or did they have some other way of dealing with it? Apparently the demon must be pretty powerful for a Jaghut to have bound it under the ice and then to return when she notices her bindings have been tampered with ...

It was powerful as it had fed mightily since the Edur has procured it. Also Letheras'es river was full of votive offerings and many, many bones of the slain and so forth. It is a being of power but the two old gods sitting by the lake could of been its match.

Perhaps Mael let them know Brys was on his way and that was why they weren't worried.

Now, I've put words like Procured and votive and ooh look! so forth!! in my post. Its sounds like i know what I'm on about.

Indubitably!

[cerveza_fiesta]

Aptorian;209611 said:

I think the wide spread theory about Drift Avalii is that it's made by the KCCM. Now that I think of it I can't remember why.

Do you have a quote about the spirit that's fed with sacrifices on Drift Avalii? I remember there being wraiths or something speaking of the Mortal Sword of a thousand deaths and I remember Darist being afraid to waken something inside the island, but I don't remember any offerings to anything.

Was there basis for this theory? I thought because it contained a phoney throne of shadow and all that, it was a fragment of KuEm. I was pretty sure that SE even mentioned that DA was brought about by the shattering. I'll have to reread all that.

Which book was the Drift Avalii fight / crokus part all in again?

[Flawed]

cerveza_fiesta;209634 said:

Was there basis for this theory? I thought because it contained a phoney throne of shadow and all that, it was a fragment of KuEm. I was pretty sure that SE even mentioned that DA was brought about by the shattering. I'll have to reread all that.

Which book was the Drift Avalii fight / crokus part all in again?

Midnight tides i think chap

[Aptorian]

Flawed;209635 said:

Midnight tides i think chap

But it actually was in House of Chains.

None of the previously known characters, except perhaps Gothos, appear in MT. It's all new people.

[Flawed]

Aptorian;209636 said:

But it actually was in House of Chains.

None of the previously known characters, except perhaps Gothos, appear in MT. It's all new people.

Im old!

[Flawed]

Cheers Apt, in honour of you. i have a new sig

[Dolorous Menhir]

Aptorian;209611 said:

I think the wide spread theory about Drift Avalii is that it's made by the KCCM. Now that I think of it I can't remember why.

Do you have a quote about the spirit that's fed with sacrifices on Drift Avalii? I remember there being wraiths or something speaking of the Mortal Sword of a thousand deaths and I remember Darist being afraid to waken something inside the island, but I don't remember any offerings to anything.

Don't think there is any concrete evidence that Drift Avalii is a KCCM construction, except for the obvious link that the KCCM used flying rocks and Drift Avalii is a floating rock with no visible means of support. It's basically a Sea Keep rather than a Sky Keep. I think it's a pretty strong link.

The fact that the Throne of Shadow is there now doesn't mean it has always been there. Rake probably placed it there for safe-keeping, since Drift Avalii was a Tiste Andii possession.

[Seed]

Dolorous Menhir;209723 said:

Don't think there is any concrete evidence that Drift Avalii is a KCCM construction, except for the obvious link that the KCCM used flying rocks and Drift Avalii is a floating rock with no visible means of support. It's basically a Sea Keep rather than a Sky Keep. I think it's a pretty strong link.

The fact that the Throne of Shadow is there now doesn't mean it has always been there. Rake probably placed it there for safe-keeping, since Drift Avalii was a Tiste Andii possession.

Hmm I think you're onto something here. Given that Kilmandaros and Rake had cleaned out all the vultures in the shattering shadow warren, sealing alot of rents and gates, then Kilmandaros presumably had turned on Rake and been subsequently thrown in the Azath, leaving Anomander with sole purview over the shattering warren for a (short?) period of time.

It's quite believable that at that time Rake 'dislodged' the section of warren containing the throne of shadow and anchored it onto drift avali in some sorcerous fashion for safekeeping. Hmmm interesting thought, given the sorcerous engines that presumably work to keep the skykeep aloft are based on k'chain gravitic/sound/vibrational powers, I can easily see them being tasked to anchoring a warren fragment in place with minimal difficulties and using the remaining output to keep the Keep *cough* barely afloat.