[Cause]

The book was okay but I had loads of problems with it

How did neville get the sword again?
who taught them how to apperate
within in five minutes of claiming the ministry they tabood the word voldemort
They took over the ministry with a snap of their fingers? surely they test for imperiused wizards, for confunded aurors. surely the aurors etc would not just switch over to hunting mudbloods over night
No one acts when it becomes obvius the ministry is taken over
they broke into gringots the most fortified magical vault in history with one confusion charm and imperius curse on the lead goblin. No one detects this? their best defence is a magical waterfall.

The storyline is almost impossible to swallow. But sometimes I wondered if people were reading the same books as me. I have made a fortune in bets that harry would live,snape is good, harry would be a horcrux etc

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Cause;202077 said:

The book was okay but I had loads of problems with it

How did neville get the sword again?
who taught them how to apperate
within in five minutes of claiming the ministry they tabood the word voldemort
They took over the ministry with a snap of their fingers? surely they test for imperiused wizards, for confunded aurors. surely the aurors etc would not just switch over to hunting mudbloods over night
No one acts when it becomes obvius the ministry is taken over
they broke into gringots the most fortified magical vault in history with one confusion charm and imperius curse on the lead goblin. No one detects this? their best defence is a magical waterfall.

The storyline is almost impossible to swallow. But sometimes I wondered if people were reading the same books as me. I have made a fortune in bets that harry would live,snape is good, harry would be a horcrux etc

They learned to apparate at school, i think in book 6. Nevile pulled the sword out of the sorting hat, just like harry did back in book 2 or 3.

[Anomander Rake]

How did neville get the sword again?

From the Sorting Hat, just as Harry got it before. Remember the sword tends to appear to those who need it etc.

who taught them how to apperate

They learnt previously, and also did the apparating tests in previous books.

They took over the ministry with a snap of their fingers? surely they test for imperiused wizards, for confunded aurors. surely the aurors etc would not just switch over to hunting mudbloods over night
No one acts when it becomes obvius the ministry is taken over

I believe Rowling actually mentions why no one acts, as the use the media as a Tool, people are confused etc. She even mentions that Voldemort didn't bother taking over the Ministry personally, as this would have removed any confusion, and caused an Uprising.

they broke into gringots the most fortified magical vault in history with one confusion charm and imperius curse on the lead goblin. No one detects this? their best defence is a magical waterfall.

They did get detected, there were some magic barrier in the tunnel that removes the confusion charm and imperius charm etc, which also set off the Alarm.


The answer to all your questions are answered in the book, or in previous books. Of course that doesn't mean you agree that the answer is a good answer or not.

I tend to read the books, without looking too deep into every single thing, because you'll always find something that might not make sense or such with any book.

[bubba]

I thought it was the best of the last 3 books. I enjoyed reading it. It had a good pace and didn't bog down anywhere. Predictable? yea... but so what it worked for me. I knew Harry was going to be a horcruxe from the moment that they were explained in book 6. I hated 5 and the movie sucked IMO. The movies was almost a whole new book, it veered so bad from the book.

[amphibian]

This is my shot at something a little deeper:

Everyone who idolizes somebody either has their idol destroyed or dies themselves. Colin Creevy (Potter paparazzi), Dobby (worshiped Harry) Hagrid (Dumbledore), Bellatrix (Voldemort), Snape (Lily). Harry himself had Dumbledore, Lupin and Sirius die. Lockhart doesn't quite fit, but the Hogwarts people found out the truth about his career.

The only one who doesn't quite fit thus far is Kreacher.

Anyways, I think Rowling was kinda trying to tell everybody to keep some perspective on other people. Everybody's mortal and everybody errs -except Chuck Norris.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Lockhart idolized himself, and was destroyed for it. kreacher is a bit tougher. I guess you could say he idolizes purebloods, but the idea that they were the best is shattered. Interesting theory.

[QuickTidal]

tiam;202019 said:

I wasnt impressed at all really. The book wasnt too bad but most of it was like a camping expedition. That was ok. But harry being resurected (although were all fairly used to that here ) was crap he should of died.

What i disliked most was the brady bunch ending but more importantly the completely random introduction to these piles of crap Hallows. It all just seemed so convenient that these would be introduced. If it was just the Horcruxes then it wouldnt be so bad

Okay. For a story to be good the main character doesn't have to EFFIN die. I am sick and tired of this in alot of books. While it is great and works on some levels in some books, I feel that in this book you are wrong...

...and here's why I feel that way.

Harry spent a big chunk of the Snape Tale time finding out he had to die right? That he was indeed a Horcrux. We all kind of saw this coming, as it makes sense. So, what does he do then, he steels himself to this fact. He walks out of Hogwarts, fully intending to confront Voldy, and die for the good of all. He gives Neville the task of the final Horcrux (Nagini), and goes to meet his fate.

Dies.

Finds out about the "gleam of triumph" from GOF and that his blood tethers him to life, as long as Voldy lives right? This is a nice twist, and very Japanese actually. The protagonist loses, then wins, but at great cost. So he does his duty, and confronts this vicious fate, and is rewarded, but this man is going to carry scars his whole life about teh death around him during this period.

It's nicely done without copping out I feel.

[Tes'thesula]

So I liked this book, one thing I enjoyed was Snape's story. There has always been the question of whether Snape was a good guy, or a bad guy. And we finally get the answer that he was a pretty bad guy in the end, but did some good things.

We find out the only reason Snape turns from V is that he has this kinda creepy obsession with Lily Potter, otherwise it seems like he would have kept serving V. Not only this, but then Dumbledore manipulates this "love" to get Snape to protect Harry, again something he probably wouldn't have done if not for Lily. So though, generally, Snape seems to support the actions of V (he had no worries about all the other killings he had done, only when it came to Lily did he turncoat) and thus has the characteristics of a bad guy, he also does all the things that we would expect of a good guy.

I liked that.

I have a question from the entire series - just what are up with those magical portraits? They live on after the paintee's death, seem to have their personality and memories...might not be a very effective form of immortality, but it is something.

[Cold Iron]

This thread saddens me

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Cold Iron;202283 said:

This thread saddens me

Why?

[Cold Iron]

Because Harry Potter is a harbinger of death for the whole genre. As if we didn't already cop enough shit by admitting "i like fantasy"...

Also, of all fantasy fans, you'd think SE's fans would be least likely to read trash...

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I don't think it's the harbinger of death for the genre. I think it's going to lead to an infusion of new fans. As far as us getting shit for admitting we read fantasy, HP has made it more mainstream, leading to getting less shit about reading fantasy.

I think it's a little harsh to call it trash. If you don't like it, fine, I'm not going to bust your balls for disagreeing about an author like some kind of Goodkind fan. I disagree that it's trash though. Is it perfect? No. Rowling can get away with a lot just because HP are technically children's books. The bottom line is, they're highly entertaining to read, to some. To me, that's how I judge a book. Not everything has to be high literature.

Is it possible that some of your feelings are a backlash against the mania? The whole "if this many people like it, it must be shit" idea? That's how I felt about HP for years, before I read it. Have you read the books?

[Cold Iron]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;202302 said:

I don't think it's the harbinger of death for the genre. I think it's going to lead to an infusion of new fans. As far as us getting shit for admitting we read fantasy, HP has made it more mainstream, leading to getting less shit about reading fantasy.

No, leading to more shit fantasy and more people thinking fantasy is shit. HP is a fad, people will be bagging it in no time.

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I think it's a little harsh to call it trash. If you don't like it, fine, I'm not going to bust your balls for disagreeing about an author like some kind of Goodkind fan. I disagree that it's trash though. Is it perfect? No. Rowling can get away with a lot just because HP are technically children's books. The bottom line is, they're highly entertaining to read, to some. To me, that's how I judge a book. Not everything has to be high literature.

I have nothing against low-brow entertainment. But put it on TV and let me be done with it in 30mins. If i'm going to dedicate weeks to a novel or series of novels, I don't want Dumbledore Does Dallas. The fact that the highest selling series of fiction of all time are childrens books is indicative of the modern reader.

Quote

Is it possible that some of your feelings are a backlash against the mania? The whole "if this many people like it, it must be shit" idea? That's how I felt about HP for years, before I read it. Have you read the books?

I've perused. I made my decision after a few paragraphs but i gave it a few pages just to be sure. It's not so much that i have anything against HP, it's good for children and people of equivalent intellect. I guess I just had higher hopes for fans of SE... it's hard for me to imagine someone who would both understand SE and enjoy HP. Such a person would frustrate me for wasting their time when there are so many better things to read.

[Anomander Rake]

What I've never understood is when a person hates a book, why they go into threads which are discussing the sequels and say its rubbish etc, when they've maybe only have read the first book. I tend to see this happen on a lot of forums. I've seen this happen with thread's over at ASOIAF forum about Steven Erikson books, where a thread will be created to say discuss MOI, and you'll get people who read the first but really hated it, posting in the thread and just saying how crap Erikson is. Though I've recognised there it tends to be the same peope who do it in any thread that discusses any of Erikson's books.

I've read plenty of books, and there have been some where I've really thought what a crap book, and avoided reading the sequel's like the plague. Now if someone created a thread asking people if they have read this book or a series, and whether they should read it too, then everyone who has read even if only the first book or part-of can post their opinions.

But when there are thread's dicussing the sequel's, I don't think its very productive to have not read it and say its crap.

As to the Harry Potter series, I've found it to be one of the best Escapism series ever and an excellent entertainment read. As to its literary merits, well I've never been one to judge a book too much on that, if the book can entertain me and has a strong element of being able to take the reader into the created world, then I'm happy. I'm no longer in school in that I need to analyse the writing and look for every little flaw i can find for an essay.

As to reading Harry Potter and Steven Erikson, I'm a person who can watch movie drama set in 18th century, to action films, comedy, musicals, children's films etc, and enjoy it. I don't tend to limit myself to only a few genre likes.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Quote

No, leading to more shit fantasy and more people thinking fantasy is shit.

News flash: everyone who doesn't read fantasy already thinks it's shit. And, I've talked to very few people who HAVE ACTUALLY READ IT who think HP is shit. No one who already likes fantasy will stop liking it becasue of HP, but there are plenty of people who didn't like it that do now.

Quote

HP is a fad, people will be bagging it in no time.

Ah yes, one of those fads that lasts for 10 years, popular from its beginning until the predetermined end. Actually, it'll be 14 years by the time the last movie comes out. Your definition of a fad might differ from mine, but in my book, they rarely span entire decades.

Quote

I have nothing against low-brow entertainment. But put it on TV and let me be done with it in 30mins. If i'm going to dedicate weeks to a novel or series of novels, I don't want Dumbledore Does Dallas.

If it takes you weeks to get through the HP series, you've either got problems or disabilities. Of course, you'd have to read it to know that.

Quote

The fact that the highest selling series of fiction of all time are childrens books is indicative of the modern reader.

Ok, you've got a point there. The modern reader isn't looking for anything difficult to get through. Although, by the end of tthe series, no one in their right mind could classify HP as children's literature. At the beginning, sure, but not by the end. I think this is another indication of you literature snobbery. If the stupid masses like it, it must suck, right?

Quote

I've perused. I made my decision after a few paragraphs but i gave it a few pages just to be sure.

So you're one of those fun people who like to review books you never read. It must be fun to be psychic. Nothing is more annoying than hearing someone blathering on about something, only to realize they are uninformed, and so are pulling their argumants out of their butt. I would take your opinion seriously had you even read the books we're discussing. Guess what? The first few pages of HP aren't great. They were written by a homeless woman with no experience. Think it's possible she improved a little as she went?

Quote

It's not so much that i have anything against HP, it's good for children and people of equivalent intellect.

And here's where you pissed me off. NOt capable of having an adult conversation in which 2 people present opposing points of view, you spout off about anyone who disagrees with you must have an intellect of a child. Are you a goodkind fan, by any chance? Mystar loves that argument.

Quote

I guess I just had higher hopes for fans of SE... it's hard for me to imagine someone who would both understand SE and enjoy HP.

It's hard for me to uderstand someone who could understand SE would be so asnine as to disparage book they hadn't even read. BTW, SE isn't that difficult to understand. You're feeling cool for understanding something that most people could also understand. Get over yourself.

Quote

Such a person would frustrate me for wasting their time when there are so many better things to read.

And we're back to the point that you don't know if it's a waste of time,, as you haven't read more tha a few paragraphs.

So, I can't fault you for not liking HP, everyone likes different things. However, you're talking out of your ass because you've never read them. By your own admission, you're ignorant about the subject, but try to discuss it anyways. That's a sign of brilliant mind, I'm sure.

And then, you fall back on the old Goodkind argument. We must be stupid if we disagree with you. Right.

This has been fun. Maybe you should pick a series I've never read, and I'll tell you how bad it is without bothering to read it, and then call you stupid for liking it.

[Anomander Rake]

Cold Iron;202304 said:

I've perused. I made my decision after a few paragraphs but i gave it a few pages just to be sure.

You'll find there are a lot of people who started reading Garden's of the Moon who after a few paragraphs put it down, but after being encouraged by others read the rest of the book and became big fans. I myself almost put the book down after about a quarter of the way through, but forced myself to continue and became a big fan.

[polishgenius]

How patronising, Cold Iron.

It's not even like there's a huge amount of difference between SE and Rowling when it gets right down to it. Both of them are read for the "wow, that's cool" factor. Obviously, SE writes on a whole different order of scale, and is also writing for a more mature audience which changes things, but don't try to attribute him any big literary significance, which is what you appear to be trying to do.

And "children or people of equivalent intelect" - what's wrong with reading a kid's book for the sheer joy of it? Do you disavow watching kid's films as well, no matter how enjoyable they might be?

[drinksinbars]

cold iron is really a massive harry potter fan, he has a shrine to dumbledore in his livingroom and a hermoine wig and robe that he wears at weekends.

this bitching is just his carefully constructed masquerade!!!! better hope he doesnt crack and show us the pictures of his deathly hallows launch party were he and his friends all got ginger wigs and went as the weasleys;)

[caladanbrood]

I suppose it was an ok ending to the series. A few too many useful coincedences for my liking really.

It was a nice break in the middle of the shockingly boring Feast for Crows though. How the mighty have fallen

[ch'arlz]

from today's washington post:
She acknowledged that the final Potter installment leaves some loose ends.

"It would have been humanly impossible to answer every single question that comes up," she told NBC. "Because, I'm dealing with a level of obsession in some of my fans that will not rest until they know the middle names of Harry's great, great grandparents."

Rowling, whose seven Potter books have sold more than 335 million copies worldwide, said she plans to take time off to be with her family and will continue writing. She told USA Today she has two writing projects _ one for children and one for adults.

But whether she will write about her young wizard again, she said: "I think I've kind of done the wizarding world. ... I have done my Harry Potter."

see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...d=moreheadlines

-ch'arlz, anyone who dreams up ear wax jelly beans is ok in my book