[amphibian]

I don't think the Hendricks-Sadollah stoppage was early. Nor do I think this card was terrible.

Spoiler

Sadollah has what appears to be a glass jaw and almost went down before engaging in the worst attempt at a clinch I've ever seen in the octagon.

Grove nearly submitted a BJJ legend with an armbar. That's good for him, even though I was rooting for Almeida.

I was hoping Riley would KTFO Nelson. He needs to stop trying to cover the face and pass guard if he wants to G'n'P like GSP does.

I thought Griffin improved considerably between the Evans fight and now, but Silva is the gotdang MMA Muhammad Ali (pre-draft dodge). It looked like the knee in the clinch that Silva threw is the shot that broke/dislocated Griffin's jaw as Forrest backed up in stoic pain immediately after that (and Anderson did the beat his own chest thing).

Man, BJ just swooped right in for the kill. Florian couldn't do what only GSP and Hughes had done before - put Penn down when they wanted him to go down. Penn's top control was slick as hell - Florian's a good black belt and Penn made him look like a nobody.

[Zanth13]

Last thing I read today was that anderson and his manager where talking about going to light heavyweight completely and vacating the 185 belt,

That could be intersting/awesome... I feel bad for rich franklin who just can't stay away maybe he will stop his 205 bump and go back down

[Coco with marshmallows]

Zanth13, on Aug 9 2009, 10:10 PM, said:

Last thing I read today was that anderson and his manager where talking about going to light heavyweight completely and vacating the 185 belt,

That could be intersting/awesome... I feel bad for rich franklin who just can't stay away maybe he will stop his 205 bump and go back down

I don't see it, not while Machida is around at any rate.

BTW, anyone else reading the 'fix' comments regarding the fight and just thinking 'f***wits'?

[Zanth13]

He has said in the past he won't fight machida, Dana said he isn't worried about that, he will make the fight happen... But even without that fight there are interesting machups... Tito Ortiz, Rashad evans ect...

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

People saying the fight was fixed are idiots, they're also saying that the Irvin and Hendo fights were fixed too. Dumbasses.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Holy crap. Anyone watching the WEC fights? Torres just got wrecked. There goes him being involved in the p4p discussion.

[Volkh]

MUAHAHHA Guess who is back in the UFC! Vetor Belfort! he is fighting Rich Franklin in September as the main event! man i'm pumped for that. I have been watching MMA since the 1st few UFC's when I was just a kid. Vetor is probably hands down my fav fighter still to this day.

Welcome Back V.

[amphibian]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Aug 9 2009, 11:23 PM, said:

Holy crap. Anyone watching the WEC fights? Torres just got wrecked. There goes him being involved in the p4p discussion.

Yeah, Bowles got lucky with a right hook on the chin, while he was trying to survive a ferocious assault from Torres, and followed it up beautifully.

And Massouh got robbed. No way Garcia deserved that decision.

Curran displayed some beautiful BJJ, but top control counts for enough that his inability to get out and up hurt him.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

amphibian, on Aug 9 2009, 09:51 PM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Aug 9 2009, 11:23 PM, said:

Holy crap. Anyone watching the WEC fights? Torres just got wrecked. There goes him being involved in the p4p discussion.

Yeah, Bowles got lucky with a right hook on the chin, while he was trying to survive a ferocious assault from Torres, and followed it up beautifully.

And Massouh got robbed. No way Garcia deserved that decision.

Curran displayed some beautiful BJJ, but top control counts for enough that his inability to get out and up hurt him.

I think it might be a little derogatory to call that punch lucky. It didn't loo like he was wildly flailing with it, Torres was overpursuing, Bowles recognized it and fired a beautiful countershot. I'm sure there was SOME luck involved, but I think he knew what he wanted and needed to do and executed.

I disagree about the Garcia decision. Garcia clearly won the first round with the near KO. Massouh almost stole the round at the end, but it wasn't enough to overcome getting dropped. Then Massouh clearly won the second round with the choke. So it was even going to the third round, where Garcia was more aggressive and landed more power shots for the win. I'm not sure where you think Massouh got robbed.

As for the Curran fight, and top versus bottom scoring in general, I'm not sure where I stand. Yeah, he fired off a lot of sub attempts, but none of them were successful or really even close. What should an unsuccessful sub attempt be worth? As much as a failed takedown attempt? As much as a missed punch? Which is worth more, unsuccessfully attempting a sub, or successfully defending a sub? I mean, I've never trained BJJ a day in my life, but I could ATTEMPT a sub on someone. It would have no chance of success, so how much credit should I get for that?

On the other hand, it's not a lot of fun seeing the guy on top just controlling without doing any damage. I suppose that counts for octagon control though, even with no damage. It's lame though. But, wrestling is part of mma. Is it not worth anything to be able to sit in a BJJ blackbelt's guard for five minute without getting subbed or swept or allowing them to escape? So, I don't know where to stand. I've seen fights where I would give it to the bottom guy, but others where I would give it to the top.

[Zanth13]

The guard should be used to sweep or submit, if u can't do those things relatively fast then you need to get up (in MMA and this is only my opinion)especially if they are damaging you with strikes... If u can't do those 3 things then u deserve the lost round

I think take downs are worth to much scoring wise, but that's a huge conversation in itself and I don't want to type that much on my blackberry

[amphibian]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Aug 10 2009, 01:30 AM, said:

I think it might be a little derogatory to call that punch lucky. It didn't loo like he was wildly flailing with it, Torres was overpursuing, Bowles recognized it and fired a beautiful countershot. I'm sure there was SOME luck involved, but I think he knew what he wanted and needed to do and executed.

I mostly agree with that, but Bowles was taking some good shots from a very aggressive Torres at the time and I believe his eyes were closed as he swung that hook. It was an educated guess of a punch and turned out to be right on the money. He followed it up very well and avoided the instinctual armbar attempt skillfully.

Quote

I disagree about the Garcia decision. Garcia clearly won the first round with the near KO. Massouh almost stole the round at the end, but it wasn't enough to overcome getting dropped. Then Massouh clearly won the second round with the choke. So it was even going to the third round, where Garcia was more aggressive and landed more power shots for the win. I'm not sure where you think Massouh got robbed.

Massouh took essentially no damage at all the third round, while Garcia was staggering around, missing haymakers and getting out-pointed. I believe Massouh let Garcia back into the fight post-choke, but still did enough in that third round to win.

Quote

As for the Curran fight, and top versus bottom scoring in general, I'm not sure where I stand. Yeah, he fired off a lot of sub attempts, but none of them were successful or really even close. What should an unsuccessful sub attempt be worth? As much as a failed takedown attempt? As much as a missed punch? Which is worth more, unsuccessfully attempting a sub, or successfully defending a sub? I mean, I've never trained BJJ a day in my life, but I could ATTEMPT a sub on someone. It would have no chance of success, so how much credit should I get for that?

Curran was ridiculously active on the bottom. I couldn't do that for five minutes and he did it for the best part of fifteen. Mizugaki did very well to avoid subs until the very end (very, very sweet armbar fake to the solid triangle; Miz was 10 seconds away from tapping when time ran out), but I got the distinct feeling that he hadn't ever dealt with someone that active and skilled from the bottom before.

What distinguished Curran's attempts from others is that he was constantly threatening with them. I agree with the decision, that Mizugaki won, but that was a very close fight and Curran retains his honor in defeat. Mizugaki wasn't really able to hurt Curran as he was so busy retaining top control. If Curran had lost badly, he'd probably have been out of the WEC. Now it looks like he's got at least a couple more as Mizugaki is no slouch.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 10 August 2009 - 07:03 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

amphibian, on Aug 10 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Aug 10 2009, 01:30 AM, said:

I think it might be a little derogatory to call that punch lucky. It didn't loo like he was wildly flailing with it, Torres was overpursuing, Bowles recognized it and fired a beautiful countershot. I'm sure there was SOME luck involved, but I think he knew what he wanted and needed to do and executed.

I mostly agree with that, but Bowles was taking some good shots from a very aggressive Torres at the time and I believe his eyes were closed as he swung that hook. It was an educated guess of a punch and turned out to be right on the money. He followed it up very well and avoided the instinctual armbar attempt skillfully.

Quote

I disagree about the Garcia decision. Garcia clearly won the first round with the near KO. Massouh almost stole the round at the end, but it wasn't enough to overcome getting dropped. Then Massouh clearly won the second round with the choke. So it was even going to the third round, where Garcia was more aggressive and landed more power shots for the win. I'm not sure where you think Massouh got robbed.

Massouh took essentially no damage at all the third round, while Garcia was staggering around, missing haymakers and getting out-pointed. I believe Massouh let Garcia back into the fight post-choke, but still did enough in that third round to win.

Quote

As for the Curran fight, and top versus bottom scoring in general, I'm not sure where I stand. Yeah, he fired off a lot of sub attempts, but none of them were successful or really even close. What should an unsuccessful sub attempt be worth? As much as a failed takedown attempt? As much as a missed punch? Which is worth more, unsuccessfully attempting a sub, or successfully defending a sub? I mean, I've never trained BJJ a day in my life, but I could ATTEMPT a sub on someone. It would have no chance of success, so how much credit should I get for that?

Curran was ridiculously active on the bottom. I couldn't do that for five minutes and he did it for the best part of fifteen. Mizugaki did very well to avoid subs until the very end (very, very sweet armbar fake to the solid triangle; Miz was 10 seconds away from tapping when time ran out), but I got the distinct feeling that he hadn't ever dealt with someone that active and skilled from the bottom before.

What distinguished Curran's attempts from others is that he was constantly threatening with them. I agree with the decision, that Mizugaki won, but that was a very close fight and Curran retains his honor in defeat. Mizugaki wasn't really able to hurt Curran as he was so busy retaining top control. If Curran had lost badly, he'd probably have been out of the WEC. Now it looks like he's got at least a couple more as Mizugaki is no slouch.

Well stated sir! Ah, the rare joys of intelligent discussion about mma on the internet. I love these forums.

I just noticed Hetan lurking in this thread. Closet mma fan, or just doing some moddng?

[amphibian]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Aug 10 2009, 04:20 PM, said:

Well stated sir! Ah, the rare joys of intelligent discussion about mma on the internet. I love these forums.

I was lucky enough to never set foot in Sherdog or the UG.

On the Tucker Max board, I post in the MMA/grappling sub-section and the people there are almost all very well versed followers and participants in the sports - as well as being able to write coherent and insightful sentences. That place and my short time in BJJ have really pushed me from casual observer to someone who really pays attention to it and puts down some observations on paper. I like you people, so I do not in the least mind splitting my time between the two places.

I wish No-God would post more. He's let a few tidbits slip out about being a pretty high-level grappler and fan of the sport.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Yeah, that guy seems legit. He's had some insightful opinions in the past.

I wish I could afford to get into grappling myself, for the fun and to gain a better understanding of the sport, but that shit's expensive. I think I pay close enough attention though to have a decent idea of what I'm ta;king about most of the time, as much as anyone who doesn't actually participate in the sport can.

[Tuberski]

The Bowles punch was too short and compact to have been a lucky punch, the first time I saw it, it actually looked like an elbow strike. Not until the replays could I tell it was a punch.

FWIW, I'm a hardcore boxing fan and casual MMA fan.

[Zanth13]

Ive been doing BJJ for about 2 months or so now and I love it... (i did some with the army, but nothing compared to what l learn now)

after a few more months I may start doing some of the striking class they have... I am friends with a few pro fighters now (local venues so far) and my brother is an Amateur fighter,

but BJJ is what I really enjoy though... i could see myself dedicating alot of time into it... if I can progress I might even try to make a career out of it (eventually instructing, i think i might be to lazy for MMA, but i still love it)

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

HAHAHAHAHA

[Zanth13]

apperently the story run on yahoo about Anderson vacating his belt and moving to 205 was false...

he will not do that and he will not fight Machida...

oh well...his manager wants him to fight another 205er instead of dan henderson, he doesnt feel Dan deserves a title shot again yet... he thinks the winner of the maia nate fight should get the next title fight.

@rly thats funny as hell

This post has been edited by Zanth13: 12 August 2009 - 01:51 AM

[Bonesaw85]

God damn, WEC never fails to entertain

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Yeah, always a good show. I'm not sure how to feel about them possibly merging into the UFC.