[amphibian]

I still think Penn won the first three rounds of the first Edgar fight. But his inability to seek out good coaches who push him to improve technically and listen to them - before he ever fought Frankie - is what made him fall from those heights.

[polishgenius]

They surely must kill TUF soon. I only watched the one season, already long past its prime, the Jedrzejczyk/Gadelha one- and that was poor and a bad misjudgement of the obvious aim of making Jedrzejczyk a bigger star. The recent season got even less traction, while Dana White, Lookin For a Fight actually seems to gain some attention (I haven't watched it, but for all Dana's fuckwittery he's got a good screen presence so a show like that makes sense) and has already had one notable success with Mickey Gall. Seems like a natural successor.

[Binder of Demons]

Yeah, not a good idea to block high kicks with your face. It's sad to see a legend of the sport trying to recapture past glories when whatever athleticism he had is long gone. Hard to know how good YAIR RODRIGUEZ actually is from this performance too. Was more like a glorified sparring session for him.

[amphibian]

Binder of Demons, on 16 January 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Yeah, not a good idea to block high kicks with your face. It's sad to see a legend of the sport trying to recapture past glories when whatever athleticism he had is long gone. Hard to know how good YAIR RODRIGUEZ actually is from this performance too. Was more like a glorified sparring session for him.

Penn could see the kicks forming, but he couldn't do anything about it. That's why speed kills.

The UFC fed Penn to Yair when if they really wanted to get mileage out of Penn, they'd have stuck with the Siver matchup or given him someone like Guida, who is also old and beat up.

Getting choked out by a no gi Ezekiel while in mount is embarrassing. There's a reason why most grappling systems teach you to clear the head encirclements before moving to mount.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

amphibian, on 12 January 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

The reason why Anderson's "capoeira" style kicks haven't had a tremendous amount of effect is due to striking range considerations. Anderson is rarely a "lead" fighter - he doesn't usually initiate exchanges or if he does, it's a feint designed to provoke a certain reaction, which he will then counter much harder.

Thus, he usually wants to 1) be constantly looking at his opponents, 2) inviting them in further into his range, and 3) not get taken down. The stingray/wheel kick can work. However, Anderson is not particularly fast in his rotations, doesn't like throwing many body and head kicks over time (prefers to box or do low kicks with the occasional head snapper floated out there), and his opponents are also fairly fast. So it takes time to throw a stingray kick and most often the effect will be either the opponent moving out of range (ducking away) or moving in, grabbing Anderson, and putting him down. Neither of those two things are what Anderson really wants. Sure, a great headkick KO is terrific, but it's lower percentage than masking range shifts and luring an opponent into a boxing counter.

Barboza doesn't give a fuck about opponents moving out of range because he's fast and he sets up a variety of spinning kicks much better than Anderson does. He makes the tradeoff that he can be taken down a bit easier, but he's also fighting lighter and less elite opponents than Anderson was/is.

Range and tradeoffs to impose a specific gameplan are where the fights are usually won and lost.

Anderson finally landed a stingray's tail in his latest fight, though it looks like it was probably at least partly blocked:

https://www.youtube....h?v=htA84EYsalY

He also did some capoeira ginga (the traditional dancing footwork/stance/movements) and used it to feint on another stingray's tail and land a roundhouse kick to the face (this video places capoeira music behind his dance moves... hard to tell whether Brunson managed to block at all):

https://www.youtube....h?v=gRJA7RQLkko

Didn't knock Brunson out, but won a controversial decision. Probably partly a result of the new official judging criteria, which I like (similar result in the main event too).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 17 February 2017 - 01:18 AM

[Malankazooie]

The NY referee sanctioned for the Holm vs De Randamie was egregious. Those strikes after the buzzer required a 1 pt. penalty at a minimum. Holm was out matched though for the most part. She needs to quit the tennis yells before she strikes (or moves for that matter), it's too much of a tell for her opponent.

About Anderson, since he snapped his lower leg in half against Chris Weidman, he is hesitant to throw as many leg kicks, at least that is the way it seems to me. Joe Rogan and the announcing crew even made that observation. BTW, what happened to Rogan's long time announcement partner Mike Goldberg? Man, it seems since the UFC was sold the product has gotten weaker. Goldberg out, fighters required to wear Reebok gear (I hate Reebok) and weigh-ins no longer happen live, so when they air that it is all for show and the fighters don't strip down into their skivvies and look all dehydrated and stuff to make weight.... the new way they are doing business is kind of bullshit if you ask me.

[amphibian]

Malankazooie, on 17 February 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

The NY referee sanctioned for the Holm vs De Randamie was egregious. Those strikes after the buzzer required a 1 pt. penalty at a minimum. Holm was out matched though for the most part. She needs to quit the tennis yells before she strikes (or moves for that matter), it's too much of a tell for her opponent.

About Anderson, since he snapped his lower leg in half against Chris Weidman, he is hesitant to throw as many leg kicks, at least that is the way it seems to me. Joe Rogan and the announcing crew even made that observation. BTW, what happened to Rogan's long time announcement partner Mike Goldberg? Man, it seems since the UFC was sold the product has gotten weaker. Goldberg out, fighters required to wear Reebok gear (I hate Reebok) and weigh-ins no longer happen live, so when they air that it is all for show and the fighters don't strip down into their skivvies and look all dehydrated and stuff to make weight.... the new way they are doing business is kind of bullshit if you ask me.

The early weigh ins are mostly beloved by the fighters and coaches. Oddly enough, the flyweights seem to have the most trouble making weight with the new system.

The after-the-bell strikes weren't that bad - the round ends when the ref stops it, not the bell. Plus... "protect yourself at all times". Holm needs to figure out how to come in without leading with the left. It's so recognizable that de Randamie was thumping her for it, even as Holm managed to land leg kicks. I realize she wants to "make" her opponent go back out or slip outside to kick 'em with the left leg, but what happens when that isn't what the opponent does? She doesn't adapt beyond rushing in and trying for a takedown. That doesn't go great because it's either option A or option B, so it's easy to shut down with similar footwork.

Holm is actually really disappointing for someone who's been taking striking lessons with Winklejohn since she was a young teenager. Yeah, her big win vs Rousey was terrific and she was beating Miesha before the sudden sub, but each performance before and after has been rather lackluster. Hope she manages to switch up her game enough for the next fight. I don't know about the yells ever going away. I think they're too ingrained into Holm.

Anderson never did throw leg kicks much, even before the leg break. It's not his style, which is that he's almost purely a counter-striker and one shot kicker and with his aging, the speed necessary to take advantage of the opportunities to counter-strike or one shot people has diminished. Thus, he's had to lead much more and that's mostly been done with punches and wading into the clinch. I don't think Brunson beat him up in the clinch - Anderson was rolling with most of the strikes and looking to get a tired Brunson bent over into one of Anderson's knees. I do think Anderson won, but just barely with a 29-28.

[Malankazooie]

amphibian, on 17 February 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

The after-the-bell strikes weren't that bad - the round ends when the ref stops it, not the bell. Plus... "protect yourself at all times".

Are you shitting me?! You must have been watching another fight then because that first after the bell punch definitely put Holm on queer street. In fact she was still reeling a bit when she came out for the next round. It definelty gave De Randamie an advantage going into that round. The ref should have deducted De Randamie a point. NY better get their shit together.

amphibian, on 17 February 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

I don't know about the yells ever going away. I think they're too ingrained into Holm.

They're annoying as hell and (for me anyway) takes away from her likability as a persona in the UFC.

amphibian, on 17 February 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Anderson never did throw leg kicks much, even before the leg break. . . .

Yeah, astute analysis there. The point being though is that since his lower leg went all fish floppy after breaking it on Weidman, he hasn't thrown it as much. Revisit fights prior and you will notice he used the leg kick much more often.

##############################
Anyway, I guess there is a fight this Saturday (Emelianenko VS Mitrione) in Bellator 172 and then a UFC Fight Night on Sunday with Lewis VS Browne as the headline fight. BTW, isn't Browne Ronda Rousey's boyfriend? And doesn't he have a history of domestic violence? hmmmm... interesting.

I'll probably try and DVR each and then fast forward through as neither seem all that compelling to me.

[amphibian]

Regarding a round's end - the referee has to stop it. The bell signals the referee to stop it. Until the referee stops it, the action is still live. Yeah, the punches hurt Holm, but... the round was still going. The referee needs to do a better job stopping the round, so this is on him, but not in terms of point-taking. Germaine de Randamie didn't do anything point-taking worthy. She listened to the referee after the second time and didn't do it again.

The one I got mad about was standing up Glover Teixeira from half guard when he was working to get up and punch the snot out of his opponent. That was bad.

[polishgenius]

Malankazooie, on 17 February 2017 - 02:15 AM, said:

BTW, what happened to Rogan's long time announcement partner Mike Goldberg? Man, it seems since the UFC was sold the product has gotten weaker. Goldberg out, fighters required to wear Reebok gear (I hate Reebok) and weigh-ins no longer happen live, so when they air that it is all for show and the fighters don't strip down into their skivvies and look all dehydrated and stuff to make weight.... the new way they are doing business is kind of bullshit if you ask me.

The only one of those that has happened since the takeover is Goldie, and that's fair enough because Goldie was shocking at his job, though they should have handled it better for his years of service. Even though it was shocking.

The weigh-in thing is absolutely proper. It's only a small step but a definite one to making the sport safer and healthier if the fighters can have a more controlled cut for the weigh-in (I'd prefer a same-day weigh-in with limits on how much rehydrating is allowed, so fighters are actually fighting in their proper weight class, but it'd be a tricky introduction).

The Reebok deal is absolute bullshit though. Not because of Reebok specifically, but because it absolutely shafts any fighters who can't negotiate an extra deal with Reebok themselves, which is everyone but the very biggest names. Tiny purses and rewards and no additional sponsors. It's already hurting the UFC in terms of fighters looking to Bellator and that so I can't imagine the new owners renewing it.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 20 February 2017 - 10:15 AM

[Malankazooie]

polishgenius, on 20 February 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

The only one of those that has happened since the takeover is Goldie, and that's fair enough because Goldie was shocking at his job . . .

Yeah, Goldberg could be kind of shitty at the job, but I don't know, there was something about how he would get excited or place way more emphasis on some of his wording that made it feel... cool?

polishgenius, on 20 February 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

The weigh-in thing is absolutely proper. It's only a small step but a definite one to making the sport safer and healthier if the fighters can have a more controlled cut for the weigh-in . . . .

I guess, I mean sure it's probably the best for the fighters, but I'm talking from a fan perspective. It was neat to see just how much these fighters suffer to make weight. Go look at some of Conor McGregor's weigh-ins at the lowest weights he fought at. He comes in looking like a walking corpse, all dehydrated and desiccated looking. And then when you see him walk into the ring on fight night, he looks like he's grown about 2 sizes or more.

Now it's all just for show. They don't even strip down into their most unmentionables of unmetionalbles and wear whatever (with jewelry and cowboy hats etc.). Fox Sports should probably just stop airing the weigh-ins altogether.

polishgenius, on 20 February 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

The Reebok deal is absolute bullshit though. . . .

Also, I just miss the bat shit crazy adverts the fighters would be promoting when the got into the ring. It was like NASCAR on steroids. Their corner would hang their sheet with all the nutri companies listed and so forth. It would motivate me to go investigate those companies and say to myself "yep, those are borderline PEDs / steroids they are selling"

Anyway, the take away of all of this is the UFC product has diminished.

[Binder of Demons]

It may be an inherent bias against any change to what i'm familiar with, but I absolutely hated the new commentator for the UFC at the weekend (Goldberg's replacement). Now Goldie may have become a bit stale, and could talk absolute nonsense at times, but his voice was synonymous with the UFC.

This new guy, Grishom?, talked shite half the time, and sounded like a super bland, generic American sports broadcaster all the time. I also lost count of the number of times he'd say something to Stann, and then Stann would have to correct him. Now it was his debut, so there will have been teething problems, but his vocal delivery was grating to my ears, and I just don't see that improving.

I know a lot of american viewers complained about when John Gooden and Dan Hardy did a broadcast, but I've always found Gooden to be easy to listen to, and super knowledgeable. I wish he was given more of a chance on regular UFC cards and not just occasional European ones. At least Anik will be getting most of the calls this year, though i could do without his constant betting line asides.

the UFC made some comment about unveiling their commentary dream team line up soon, but after that poor showing on sunday, and the muddle that was the 3 man booth the week before, I shudder to think what it will be.

This post has been edited by Binder of Demons: 20 February 2017 - 08:41 PM

[polishgenius]

I don't have the familiarity thing, being relatively new to the UFC, and I also haven't watched any fights with the new guy (although is this guy permanent? Are they not getting in Jim Rome? Who to be fair is probably even worse from what I know of him), but my problems with Goldie can be summed up by the fact that it took me several months, and I know I'm not the only one in this, to realise that Rogan was supposed to be the colour man in the partnership and Goldie on the play-by-play.

[Binder of Demons]

Had to laugh when i saw this. How not to taunt your opponent. What a dipstick.

[Malankazooie]

Joe Rogan messes up quite often, tbh. And he can be annoying too. I'm not a huge fun of the over reactory OOOOOOHHH! when someone gets knocked down. He's grown on me though, so I'm ok with him for the most part. I think he has set the template for announcing MMA fighting though, as Bellator has an announcer that straight up copies his style.

[Hairshirt]

polishgenius, on 20 February 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

I don't have the familiarity thing, being relatively new to the UFC, and I also haven't watched any fights with the new guy (although is this guy permanent? Are they not getting in Jim Rome? Who to be fair is probably even worse from what I know of him), but my problems with Goldie can be summed up by the fact that it took me several months, and I know I'm not the only one in this, to realise that Rogan was supposed to be the colour man in the partnership and Goldie on the play-by-play.

I read somewhere that Jim Rome was a possibility. I really hope that doesn't materialize, I haven't liked anything that guy has done. I'm a little worried about where this new ownership is taking the UFC. It seems there looking for stars which is really difficult in a combat sport, look what happened with Rousey and the terrible promotion of that last fight where Amanda Nunes was an after thought. I think the days of long running champions is done, it's too easy for anyone to get a clean shot and knockout anyone out. Hopefully it doesn't become boxing where a champs fights are picked to keep them champ and talented challengers who aren't big pay per view sellers get the shaft.

[Malankazooie]

For the UFC or any combat sport to stay viable (and profitable) they really need "stars". Look at what has happened to boxing. No stars, no longer relevant. The UFC really needs a Ronda Rousey and Conor McGregor. Rousey is el finito and McGregor is off to get totally outclassed by Mayweather in a schticky boxing match. So the UFC is sorta hurting right now.

[Binder of Demons]

Such a disappointing announcement regarding the cancellation of the Nurmagamedov-Ferguson bout at UFC209. That had all the ingredients to be a fight of the year. A super strong wrestler with crappy striking vs a super unorthodox fighter with decent striking and slick BJJ (and insane cardio). It could have ended brutally for either guy in the first round or been a protracted 5 round battle.

And instead, we get another fight lost to the scourge of MMA, weight cutting. The big jumps from 155 pounds to 170, and 170 to 185 mean you get enough guys either trying to boil themselves down unhealthily to a lower weight, or being significantly undersized for the next weight class up, so they chose the lower weight. I heard Khabib say on a radio show a few weeks ago that he walks around at nearly 200pounds between fights before dropping down to 155 to fight. That is nuts.

Not sure how they can stop the athletes from doing it to try and gain an advantage, but it really need to be looked at more.

Aside from that, some nice fights still on the UFC 209 card. I'm hoping for Thompson to defeat Woodley (but i think woodley will win it) since i really like seeing an elite skill like Thompson's MMA-adapted karate do so well since it is quite unique at this level. Powerful wrestlers with a big overhand punch we've seen many times before, and I personally don't enjoy it half as much. But each to their own.

I really hope Mark Hunt KO's Overeem as well in spectacular fashion so he can get on the mic and say awkward things about the UFC. It would be great fun to see them have to pay him a performance bonus while he's in the process of suing them.

Anyone else watching this weekend?

[Malankazooie]

UFC 210. I didn't watch it myself, but I guess Anthony "Rumble" Johnson retired after the fight (defeated by Daniel Cormier, 2nd round submission). Wow, dude wasn't the most nuanced or skilled light heavyweight, but man his punches packed a wallop. Probably the most vicious puncher of the active fighters out there. I'm sad to see him go, but glad he seems to be as peace with his decision.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Malankazooie, on 09 April 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

UFC 210. I didn't watch it myself, but I guess Anthony "Rumble" Johnson retired after the fight (defeated by Daniel Cormier, 2nd round submission). Wow, dude wasn't the most nuanced or skilled light heavyweight, but man his punches packed a wallop. Probably the most vicious puncher of the active fighters out there. I'm sad to see him go, but glad he seems to be as peace with his decision.

"Even if the result had been different and Johnson had walked away with the light heavyweight title, he claims that his decision would have remained the same."
http://www.sherdog.c...qAB1Li4H7roG.99

Frustrating fight to watch... Rumble was winning the striking exchanges, broke Cormier's nose (I think with a head kick), but kept driving in for the takedown and clinching with him against the fence, where Cormier is best.

Actual transcript of Rumble's corner during the fight:

"Grappling coach Neil Melanson: OK, stud. Now, let’s get your hands hot.Voice: Why is he wrestling him?

Hooft: This is stupid.

Voice: Why is he wrestling him?

Hooft: (Expletive) it, man. Just get off the cage.

Voice: Get out of there.


Voice: Why isn’t he listening?"

http://www.bloodyelb...wrestle-bizzare

I hope Weidman serves as an example to anyone else who tries to exploit that old bullshit loophole (putting fingers on the mat while standing to make knees to the head count as illegal "knees to a downed opponent" when that was not at all the intent of the rule) now that the rules have been altered to make it harder to abuse (Mousasi lifting Weidman up as he threw the knee---bringing Weidman's fingertips off the canvas and making it legal---was a nice move). A lot of fighters wouldn't have tried to take the five minute recovery period, much less milk it like Weidman did---another cheap move on Weidman's part (notice how he miraculously recovers as soon as he realizes it will be declared a TKO)---and if he hadn't done that, the incompetent novice ringside doctor probably wouldn't have come in to examine him, whatever bureaucratic clusterfuck ensued wouldn't have happened, and the fight wouldn't have ended there... but I'm very glad they apparently bent the rules to use the replay to revise the referee's initial decision---it would have been terrible if Mousasi had gotten DQ'd for a legal knee. Ah New York get your shit together.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 10 April 2017 - 04:14 AM