[Malaclypse]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;252905 said:

Have you not yet heard how they ended?

now I have Here in England we get the American PPV's for free the night after so I try to avoid spoilers until I can watch it.

Anyway, obviously I'm happy with the Lesnar-Mir fight. Best possible result imo. I'd never seen Lesnar fight before and it's obvious that he's a serious threat. If a WWE guy came in and destroyed the former Heavyweight champion, even given the extenuating circumstances regarding Mir, it would be detrimental for the entire sport to a greater or lesser degree (IMO). Just imagine the legion of wrassling fans dismissing MMA as a result. I think it must be a good thing for MMA to become more mainstream, regardless of what one thinks of Dana White and the UFC in general.

Anyway, I think it's clear that Mir could only have won by submission. Lesnar would have ass-raped Mir if it had gone on too much longer. And he was exciting to watch, so props to him, even if he has a surpassingly silly tattoo on his chest I could see him taking anybody on his day, so it's good for him too.

I have an unreasonable hatred for Tim Sylvia so I was thrilled to watch Minotauro submit him like that. I must admit that Sylvia looked pretty good though, relative to some of his past performances. He's just too cautious, imo and if the opponent is not able to pressure him, it's a boring fight. He could've knocked Nogueira (sp?) out in the first round if he had committed I think. I thought the Brazilian was done for myself - I think I must have woken up the neighbours with my gleeful shouting when Nogueria got the submission

And that newcomer Boetsch! Barbarian indeed! That had to be KO of the night! I'll be following this guy and hope to see more of him in the UFC.

All in all, a great event

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Malaclypse;253227 said:

now I have Here in England we get the American PPV's for free the night after so I try to avoid spoilers until I can watch it.

Anyway, obviously I'm happy with the Lesnar-Mir fight. Best possible result imo. I'd never seen Lesnar fight before and it's obvious that he's a serious threat. If a WWE guy came in and destroyed the former Heavyweight champion, even given the extenuating circumstances regarding Mir, it would be detrimental for the entire sport to a greater or lesser degree (IMO). Just imagine the legion of wrassling fans dismissing MMA as a result. I think it must be a good thing for MMA to become more mainstream, regardless of what one thinks of Dana White and the UFC in general.

Anyway, I think it's clear that Mir could only have won by submission. Lesnar would have ass-raped Mir if it had gone on too much longer. And he was exciting to watch, so props to him, even if he has a surpassingly silly tattoo on his chest I could see him taking anybody on his day, so it's good for him too.

I have an unreasonable hatred for Tim Sylvia so I was thrilled to watch Minotauro submit him like that. I must admit that Sylvia looked pretty good though, relative to some of his past performances. He's just too cautious, imo and if the opponent is not able to pressure him, it's a boring fight. He could've knocked Nogueira (sp?) out in the first round if he had committed I think. I thought the Brazilian was done for myself - I think I must have woken up the neighbours with my gleeful shouting when Nogueria got the submission

And that newcomer Boetsch! Barbarian indeed! That had to be KO of the night! I'll be following this guy and hope to see more of him in the UFC.

All in all, a great event

Wow. That's pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Get out of my head!

But yeah, teach Lesner some BJJ, and he's going to be a force.

[paladin]

his arms are too thick to bend into those bjj submissions.. he should go with the rampage jackson approach and bodyslam people into submission

[amphibian]

paladin;253378 said:

his arms are too thick to bend into those bjj submissions.. he should go with the rampage jackson approach and bodyslam people into submission

I was surprised by Lesnar's power. I knew he was big and strong, but jeebus, he was tossing Mir around.

If he goes and picks up Rampage's knowledge and style, his opponents will likely shit their pants. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a top 5 heavyweight if that happened.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

ONe thing about Lesner that needs to be at least mentioned is steroids. I'm not saying he's juicing right now, but I think it would take someone pretty naive to say that he never used when in the WWE, an organization notorious for suc things. PLus, look at him! So, while he's most likely not anymore, the body he is competing with was, imo, in large created with the assistance of the roids.

[No-God]

amphibian;241288 said:

Penn and Sherk are probably the two best LWs in the world right now. BJ is up there on the pound-for-pound list too.

Sherk's had, what, two or three lightweight fights in the last several years (against Florian, and the jiu jitsu guy...), and Penn's beat Pulver (who half of the names I listed also beat, except in Pulver's prime) and Stevenson.

Sherk and Penn might be potentially great lightweights, but neither of them have done enough in the division in the last several years to deserve a top 10 ranking. I'm not saying they aren't good, but until they beat some of the current best lightweights (fighting overseas...) they can't overtake these guys.

Hell, Aoki and JZ are fighting in April (I think) in either M-1 or Heroes. That'll determine who the #1 and #2 lightweights in the world are. Gomi is apparently returning, as well, in Japan...

[Cougar]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;253395 said:

ONe thing about Lesner that needs to be at least mentioned is steroids. I'm not saying he's juicing right now, but I think it would take someone pretty naive to say that he never used when in the WWE, an organization notorious for suc things. PLus, look at him! So, while he's most likely not anymore, the body he is competing with was, imo, in large created with the assistance of the roids.

Hit the nail on the head Yachty. He must have been 'roided off his eyeballs when he was in the WWE one look at the unnatural development of some of his muscles seems to suggest that.

Nevertheless, I was very impressed by his performance he just went at Mir, I think with some discipline he could be a real force. Just massive amounts of power in the central core of his body (I'd like to see him play Rugby League).

@ Mal: I also have a massive dislike for Tim Sylvia, I loved it when Arlovski broke his arm, and I was really pleased by the superb tactical display which saw him beaten by Randy Couture (both for the excellence of Coutures performance and for it showing up the manifest weakness in Sylvias style). I've always taken it as a bit of an insult to the sport when and the viewing public when someone turns up as overweight as Sylvia with a ring of flab (although he has gone someway to addressing this in the last few fights).

[Slum]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;253395 said:

ONe thing about Lesner that needs to be at least mentioned is steroids.

Come on, even Roger Clemens' wife is on the juice!!! It's obviously good for the whole family.

[paladin]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;253395 said:

ONe thing about Lesner that needs to be at least mentioned is steroids. I'm not saying he's juicing right now, but I think it would take someone pretty naive to say that he never used when in the WWE, an organization notorious for suc things. PLus, look at him! So, while he's most likely not anymore, the body he is competing with was, imo, in large created with the assistance of the roids.

apparently he was wrestling at the top of the collegiate heavyweight class as well.. 275 i believe is the cap for collegiate wrestling heavyweight.

[amphibian]

No-God;256220 said:

Sherk's had, what, two or three lightweight fights in the last several years (against Florian, and the jiu jitsu guy...), and Penn's beat Pulver (who half of the names I listed also beat, except in Pulver's prime) and Stevenson.

Sherk and Penn might be potentially great lightweights, but neither of them have done enough in the division in the last several years to deserve a top 10 ranking. I'm not saying they aren't good, but until they beat some of the current best lightweights (fighting overseas...) they can't overtake these guys.

Hell, Aoki and JZ are fighting in April (I think) in either M-1 or Heroes. That'll determine who the #1 and #2 lightweights in the world are. Gomi is apparently returning, as well, in Japan...

You can name 10 lightweight fighters better than Sherk and Penn? I'll stipulate that Aoki and JZ may be on their level, but right now, honestly you don't think that Sherk and Penn could take and beat either?

Lesnar lost by one point (3-2) to current Patriots OL Stephen Neal in the 1999 heavyweight championship. Neal went on to win world championships that year. Lesnar won the following year in 2000 - also 3-2.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I doubt there are ten better than Penn and Sherk. Guys who have only fought overseas are suspect.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Anyone watching the WEC event on tonight? It's free on Versus, I believe. THe WEC is the bastard stepson of UFC if you didn't already know. Some of these guys are good enough to eventually move up to the big show, and tonight they're shoehorning three title matches into one two hour broadcast. Sweet. No Urijah Faber, but some solid fights should happen.

[paladin]

now that you told me about it

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Some of these guys are good enough to compete in the UFC and may eventually move there, or fight for both. I like that WEC has lower weight classes. Bantam and Featherweights otherwise would have to fight at 155 in the UFC, which is no mi gusta for them. Crazy that UFC used to not even have lightweight for a long time.

Cro Cop is leaving the UFC. A star in Pride, chased out of the UFC after three fights. Sad. I had high hopes for watching him decapitate people for years to come.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Kimbo knocked out Tank Abbott last night. Say what you want about the guy, if you can knock out Tank in 45 seconds, you just might have a future in this sport. It all depends on how much he actually trains mma, and if they keep setting him up with favorable fights until he has a full well-rounded game. There's a rumor he might fight Ken Shamrock (not a typo, I mean Ken, not Frank). I think if that happens, he might kill Shamrock.

[amphibian]

Watch the Yves Edwards and Scott Smith fights. Hoo boy.

It's a long shot, but Ken might be able to put Kimbo on his back. I'd be interested to see what happens from then on. If it remains standing, Slice should win.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I want to see Kimbo versus Lesner. It's not going to happen, but it would be a great matchup. A brutal striker with minimal wrestling and ground skills versus the brutal G&P guy who's inexperienced on his feet. One thing for sure, someone's getting knocked out. I don't there's going to be many submission attempts.

[No-God]

I'm pretty excited for the Dan Henderson vs Anderson Silva fight coming up in March.

War Henderson! Probably the biggest middleweight fight ever.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

10 thoughts about MMA....

(It's a very long post. I don't want to hear any guff about it being too long. You are warned, and are under no obligation to read any of it. If long posts annoy you, move along, there's nothing to see here. I felt like rambling. Sue me.)

1. Yeah, I'm excited too. Henderson was just too small against Rampage. If anyone in his weight class is going to beat Silva, I think it's Henderson.

2. Wanderlei Silva (SP?) is thinking about dropping a weight class. Scary. He's still got the power to HURT people, especially if he's fighting littler guys.

3. CroCop is gone from the UFC. I find myself not caring, which is sad. I was so pumped when he came over from Pride. Biggest. Bust. From Pride. Ever.

4. How much do you think it hurts guys from Pride to not be able to to kick a downed opponent in the head? Some of those guys (Silva especially) seemed to make a living doing that. So, that said, if it is throwing off their game to a large degree, is it the fault of the rules for being too restrictive, or the fault of the fighters for relying too heavily on a cheap technique?

5. Along similar lines, how much does it throw off their games that elbows on the ground are allowed but weren't in Pride? Again, does the blame rest on the rules for being too lax and allowing a move some (but not me) would argue should be allowed? Or blame the fighters for failing to adapt?

6. They're already talking about a Liddell/Silva rematch. I think it would be a good fight, but am I the only person who thinks this unnecessary? I thought it was a solid, convincing win for Liddell the first time. Silva will always have a puncher's chance to catch Liddell and win, but I think the first fight showed that Silva has no answer for Liddell. I would like to see either of these guys fight Jardine, although the argument could be made that Jardine showed Liddell can't deal with him.

7. The UFC's business model has worked brilliantly up to this point. Specifically I'm talking about signing only exclusive contracts, and how much they pay their fighters, and promoting the fights. It is responsible for MMA being a legitimate, popular sport. However, it seems to be going sour on them.

More and more big names are leaving the UFC for other organizations, mostly over money and the fact they can't fight non-UFC guys. The UFC won't co-promote, as they want to maintain the idea that they are the only show in town. It's like if someone tried to start another football league, the NFL would never play them. The problem is, there are other shows in town now. They are throwing crazy money around to sign talent, and most are willing to let their fighters compete against other organizations. Does the UFC need to change their SOP and get with the times? Are they dooming themselves?

8. In the USA, is MMA itself popular, or is the UFC popular? No one else comes close to their PPV numbers. Imagine if Couture fought Fedor in the UFC. It would potentially be their biggest show ever, and sell over a million PPVs. Now imagine he smae fight, but for Bodog. Would they do anywhere near the same numbers, with the exact same fight? I don't think so.

9. In a rare move of actually acknowledging the existence of other promoters, the UFC has given permission for other organization to use an octagon shaped cage, which they have trademarked. The reason given is that they want to create uniformity in the sport to help it become mainstream. Nice gesture. What's funny is the are retaining the rights to the name and word "Octagon" so even though other promoters can use an octagon, they aren't allowed to ever say the word in a broadcast.

10. Tito Ortiz is leaving the UFC. I can't stand the guy, but he's always been fun to hate. Watching him cry after Liddell whipped him is one of my favorite MMA memories. I could watch him lose for years and never get bored. Unfortunately for him, I think his skills have eroded. He's never going to be the champ. If he stayed, at best his role in the UFC would be that of a gatekeeper, to determine who is ready for a title shot.

So, there you go. My 10 thoughts. Discuss.

~Luxury Yacht, has things to say about things

[paladin]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;261977 said:

8. In the USA, is MMA itself popular, or is the UFC popular? No one else comes close to their PPV numbers. Imagine if Couture fought Fedor in the UFC. It would potentially be their biggest show ever, and sell over a million PPVs. Now imagine he smae fight, but for Bodog. Would they do anywhere near the same numbers, with the exact same fight? I don't think so.

mma is popular even though other organizations dont do great on PPV.

there are hundreds of organizations around and a lot of them are pretty popular. the midwest has a contingent of good organizations, california does very well with strikeforce among other organizations, cage rage does well, kotc, elite xc, etc.