[Lofty]

I'm rereading the the series again and I've stumbled upon a passage where I can't decipher who is protecting Crokus and Apsalar at the top of the belfry tower, Krull's old tower.

Serrat is trying for what like the 5th time to assasinate him and suddenly gets the point of a tip under her chin. The protector says "Compliments of the prince, serrat. Take it up with our mutual friend". At first I thought it was the rope who decided to still play the game of the gods even though called back by shadowthrone, but I could'nt make it fit with that sentence... Please shed some light on this for me.

[Illuyankas]

I thought that he was identified? Been a while since I read GOTM, but I think it was Cowl, one of the Crimson Guard, a mercenary regiment working for Caladan Brood.

[Lofty]

jeez, no memory of that.. still around 100 pages left I'll keep reading. But yeah, what you say must be true, since their mutual friend would be Prince K'azz. My follow up question is then why the conflicting intentions from rake and brood about the coin bearer

[Dolorous Menhir]

Lofty;197936 said:

jeez, no memory of that.. still around 100 pages left I'll keep reading. But yeah, what you say must be true, since their mutual friend would be Prince K'azz. My follow up question is then why the conflicting intentions from rake and brood about the coin bearer

What conflicting intentions were those?

[Imperial Historian]

Rake wanted to remove the coin-bearer while brood wished to protect him.

I think this is mainly due to rake's belligerence towards any god interfering in his affairs, like he showed in his confrontation with shadowthrone. Brood however took the more enlightened view that they shouldn't get involved in unnecessary conflicts against gods, the focus should be on beating the malazans and protecting darujhistan.

[Lofty]

hehehe, I had totally forgot about the crimson guards involvement in Gardens of the moon. Gotta love them characters, I wish ICE would write a separate book about them =)

However the ending in gotm is really crazy, so much he'd wanted to write and seems he had no space to do so. everything happaned in a blur, and just like that Raest get hit by a cusser an Azath popping out of the ground and why not Tlan lmass magic deadening aura =)

[chill]

Lofty;198270 said:

However the ending in gotm is really crazy, so much he'd wanted to write and seems he had no space to do so. everything happaned in a blur, and just like that Raest get hit by a cusser an Azath popping out of the ground and why not Tlan lmass magic deadening aura =)

and a couple of dragons and some awoved guys and some assassinations... sure, why not?

[Lather]

even on re-read its a blur.

i totally forgot the CG were in there too AND, dolt that i am, i got all the way through TBH thinkin Rallick took LORN into the Azath House!!!!

[LordRake420]

it was members of the crimson guard. i forgot the guys name in particular but he was serious badass he owned lorn.

[Lather]

*snort* yeah i know. imagine my surprise when Lorn died in Paran's arms and i'm thinkin..WHO THE HELL did Rallick take into the Azath then???? heh. ol Vorcan got her sh*t all carved up too!

the CG who took Lorn out was Corporal Blues.

[Smythen]

Rallick took a wounded Vorcan into the Azath

[Chiblade]

Don't you think it was kinda suden and deus ex machina how the crimson gaurd just turned up outa nowhere to protect crokus? It was the one thing I like least about the ending to GotM. The thing i like best was the fight between the Tyrant and those soultaken dragons, but how did that fit into the story other than just being an awesome fight.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Chiblade;202970 said:

Don't you think it was kinda suden and deus ex machina how the crimson gaurd just turned up outa nowhere to protect crokus? It was the one thing I like least about the ending to GotM. The thing i like best was the fight between the Tyrant and those soultaken dragons, but how did that fit into the story other than just being an awesome fight.

They were there all along. It was the Crimson Guard mage Cowl who constantly interfered with Serrat to keep Crokus alive. And the whole situation was set up in an earlier scene, when it was implied that Brood would send the CGrd to Darujhistan.

[Chiblade]

Oh, I must have missed that....

[Tomau]

What was that all about the Coin bearer, why was he so important to all of them?
I understand Tiste Andii wanted to kill him, because he saw them killing that assassin on the rooftops, but why did Prince K'azz wanted him protected, and how did he even find out about him? Even Sorry wanted to kill him. And meanwhile Paran had that sword touched by Oponn and nobody bothered with him.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Tomau;205850 said:

What was that all about the Coin bearer, why was he so important to all of them?
I understand Tiste Andii wanted to kill him, because he saw them killing that assassin on the rooftops, but why did Prince K'azz wanted him protected, and how did he even find out about him? Even Sorry wanted to kill him. And meanwhile Paran had that sword touched by Oponn and nobody bothered with him.

The point of the Coin Bearer is a tough one. After all, what did Crokus do that was that important? He saved Baruk from Vorcan, but that's about it for the really important actions on his part. I think he was supposed to be an element of uncertainty introduced by Oponn, and had no specific purpose or objective except to shake things up a bit.

As for why some opposed and some supported him, that depends on their allegiances. Rake clearly disliked Oponn, so he sought to kill his/her agents. When Crokus was first targeted by the Tiste Andii it was not because he was the Coin Bearer though, it was only because he witnessed the death of Talo Krafar. They didn't know who he was at the time, the Andii appeared to be under a standing order to kill everyone on the rooftops at night (since they were likely to be assassins). Then much later, Rake spares Crokus in the streets, I think because he has realised Oponn is no threat to him, or at least that Crokus is not.

Prince Kazz? Oponn became an official enemy of the Malazan Empire by meddling in Darujhistan. Kazz's Crimson Guard were also foes of the Malazans, so I think his support of Crokus was a "the enemy of my enemy..." deal. And Sorry was Cotillion, and there seems to be no love lost between Oponn and High House Shadow.

When Rake met Paran on the Rhivi Plain (after the deaths of Hairlock and two Hounds), he was going to kill Paran after seeing the link to Oponn. But he looked deeper and realised only his sword was Oponn's tool, Paran was free of the influence - so he was spared, and told to destroy the weapon when his luck turned. I'm not sure that anyone else (who wasn't already an ally of Paran) knew about the sword's provenance, so killing Paran over it wasn't an issue.

[Deragoth]

Cool, I thought it was one of the CG but I was not sure... luckily the search function worked

[waylander001]

Great post there by Menhir - im beginning to really enjoy this Forum, it's great when re-reading the books!!!!

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

waylander001;270432 said:

Great post there by Menhir - im beginning to really enjoy this Forum, it's great when re-reading the books!!!!

DM is great when it comes to knowledge of the books. He either has read them more times than anyone else, or has a hell of a good memory.

The forum is great, especially on the reread. The first time through you really don't want to ask too many questions because of spoilers, and the typical answer will be "read and find out."

[CreepingD]

Hey guys, LONG time lurker, first time poster!
Been reading Erikson for years (read it all multiple times, and managed to pimp it out to 5 friends so far and counting...) but decided to start reading it all again after reading TTH and RoTCG.
Few things have tickled my attention and one of them related to this.

During the scene when Paran is killed by Sorry, and the Twins appear they remark to each other and Paran:

Quote

"we've long admired your..." ...
"Sword", the woman finished, a smirk in her tone.
"far more subtle than, say, a coin, don't you think?

I took this (with hindsight) to possibly mean that the sword was a more subtle placement of their influence, and that the coin was maybe just there to draw everyone's attention. Everyone spent so much effort following the spinning coin, and then the coin bearer, that Paran's sword was only noticed by a few. And yet it had a pretty damn huge effect on Paran's journey, and the twin's influence on the proceedings fo the entire series. Imagine if there were no Paran in later books! His sword, Chance, pretty much ensure he survived GoTM.

Whaddya think?