[Nameless Dhenrabi]

Hey all-

I'm about a fourth of the way through Bonehunters, and among the many things that I am unsure about regarding this series, one in particular is nagging because I feel like I've missed something from one or some of the previous books.

What, if anything, is the connection between Dassem Ultor, Dessembelakis, and Dessembrae (the lord of tradegy).

Now, I'm sure that Dassem Ultor became Dessembrae at some point, having to do with the loss of his daughter, possibly losing most of his First Sword, among some other things I might have missed.

When did this happen, and how? Or is this one of the unsolved mysteries?

Now in regards to the emperor of the First Empire, Dessembelakis, I seem to recall in the one of the previous books he being mentioned in the same breath as Dessembrae. But it was just revealed that he was a D'ivers that may have become feral.

So this is where the confusion comes in...

Crazy Theory: Dassem Ultor is a human D'ivers that was once Dessembelakis. Kelenved and Dancer found him and helped him regain his sanity, and that is why he was loyal to them. The First Sword (or part of it) was his D'ivers form. Of course, that does not take Temper and Ferrule into account, but it's something that just popped into my head.

[Dolorous Menhir]

SE has specifically denied a link between Dassem Ultor and Dessimbelackis. The similarity in names means nothing. See paragraph eight in this author interview:

Dassem Ultor is Dessembrae, Lord of Tears - this has been explicitly stated at least once, and implicitly several times.

[Nameless Dhenrabi]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Am I correct in assuming that we do not know the circumstances by which the ascension of Dessembrae occured? (other than the formation of a personality cult by citizens of the Malazan Empire?)

Could the Tanno songweaver have had anything to do with this?

[Dolorous Menhir]

He seems to have been Dessembrae before his "death," and even before the events surrounding the kidnap of his daughter. Apart from that, I don't know how he became Dessembrae. I don't think it has anything to do with Kimloc, the Tanno Spiritwalker.

[Nameless Dhenrabi]

Man, what a weird guy:

Half-Napan

Present at the last chaining, along with his daughter (who we know almost nothing about but seems important) was kidnapped (or taken) by Hood.

Former knight of High House Death.

Lord of Tragedy, and has been since the tragic events we know about him actually happened. So something major must have happened prior to all this, and we know nothing about it.

Somehow became friends with Kellenved and Dancer, and resided in the Deahouse for awhile.

Probably the greatest swordsman on Wu, and one of the strongest military minds.

Uses the rumor of his own death to wander seemingly randomly around the Malazan Empire and who knows where else.


Overall, a very frustrating character to wrap the mind around.

[Imperial Historian]

Quote

Half-Napan

Actually he's dal honese.

And I'd say he became dessambre due to the tragic events surrounding his life culminating in his daughter's death, and the worship of his soldiers... I don't think there's anything pointing to him being dessambre BEFORE his daughter died...

[kaf09]

Imperial Historian;194849 said:

Actually he's dal honese.

And I'd say he became dessambre due to the tragic events surrounding his life culminating in his daughter's death, and the worship of his soldiers... I don't think there's anything pointing to him being dessambre BEFORE his daughter died...

From what we know (and this includes the details from NoK) I would draw the opposite conclusion. That is as a result of the events at the last chaining, Dassem Ultor no longer participated in the pantheon - he wanted nothing to do with gods or goddesses. It might help of course if we knew when the last chaining occurred - but those details have not been forthcoming.


Agreed that DU is Dal Honese

[Aptorian]

I actually find it very amusing that Dassem is Dal Honese because the only other male Dal Honese we've heard of so far are more or less mad. Shadowthrone, Pust and that warlock in RG. Of course ST and Pust are probably nuts because of their shadowy nature. But still...

Remember Mappo's outburst when he wakes and see's Mr and Mrs Pust fighting "Hood's breath! Dal Honese!"

Their cranky, paranoid and manic by nature I think.

[Mentalist]

Ummm.. i may, of course, be severely mistaken, but didn't the chaining occur in the Year 0 of Burn's sleep? I mean, from re-reading MoI i gathered that the reason she fell asleep is to escape the pain inflicted by the CG....

[kaf09]

kud13;195629 said:

Ummm.. i may, of course, be severely mistaken, but didn't the chaining occur in the Year 0 of Burn's sleep? I mean, from re-reading MoI i gathered that the reason she fell asleep is to escape the pain inflicted by the CG....

That is the assumption for one of the chainings - how many more were there? If year 0 Burn's sleep is the most recent chaining that would make Dassem Ultor and Cotillion +1000 years old (not impossible but unlikely).

[Mentalist]

hey, am I missing something here? Since when was Cotillion involved in the Chainings?
in one of the epitaphs of BH, i believe, it says that it was surprising that the gods that caused CG the most trouble were actually those who had nothing to do with the Chaining..
and as for the wiki, it says that Dassem was First Sword reborn... Meaning, he was as good as Tool (First Sword of the Imass)? or the First Sword of the First Empire of Men in 7C?
if Dassem was an Ascendant prior to the conquest of Dal Hon by Malazans (a fact t hat is yet to be disproven), he mayas well have lived for 1000+ years...I mean, Nightchilll has been around for a while, yet no one figured out she was Elder untill now...

[Dolorous Menhir]

There was a reference somewhere or other to Dancer or Cotillion attending a Chaining. The uncertainty is when exactly it took place, and it makes a big difference if it was Dancer or Cotillion.

[Dolorous Menhir]

That's good - the last known Chaining is the one involving the hi-jinks around Dassem's daughter, at which time Dancer had not yet ascended. I was worried we would have another timeline headache if it was Cotillion who was supposed to have attended.

[kaf09]

Dolorous Menhir;195748 said:

That's good - the last known Chaining is the one involving the hi-jinks around Dassem's daughter, at which time Dancer had not yet ascended. I was worried we would have another timeline headache if it was Cotillion who was supposed to have attended.

That sounds reasonable. Cotillion (=Dancer) did not have to attend as an ascendant (nor did Kellanved, though I think there is no direct evidence that he was an attendee). That this last chaining involved Dassem's daughter was why I suggested that DU ceased being Dassembrae at this point (i.e. while Dassembrae demonstrably still had priests and worshippers after the last chaining, their god had resigned).