[polishgenius]

darkwolf;185510 said:

Tay has left the order (fleed
from Kartool, more precisely - it's hinted in HoC and Banashar proves it in BH) and cut all ties with D'rek. His soul is again his own (Agayla, NoK). He certainly isn't blessed by her anymore - not to mention she tried to kill him as well during the all-my-priests-die routine.

I haven't read NoK so I don't know what that bit means (and don't say it, either, as I'll be reading it by summer), but the ending of BH, specifically his conversation with Shadowthrone, implies that he's still got D'rek on his side - and certainly hasn't cut all ties with her, since he had a conversation.

[Dolorous Menhir]

darkwolf;185510 said:

And we don't know neither the age of Tay nor the age of QB, so we can't assume that QB is younger.

I'm inclined to say that QB was a young man when the chase over Raraku took place, which would make him a similar age to Fiddler, Kalam and the other Bridgeburners. His sister certainly didn't seem particularly old - there were no hints in her memories, that I can remember, to suggest unusual age.

Tays, I don't know. He's very good at masking his appearance, and there is no background info apart from his once-membership of the cult of D'rek on Kartool.

[phart]

More ammo for my gripe

Rereading RG, Hedge and QB are having a conversation about the CG, QB STATES that if he(the CG) showed up he would be overmatched, hedge says something like "by you?? always knew you held a high opinion of yourself", "not me idiot, menadore" snapped QB

So QB got easily captured by the CG in MOI, one sister in QB's opinion is enough to "overmatch" the CG, but QB thrashes the 3 sisters????

I have been thinking about this as it really bugs me as its so unlike Erikson to write something in so badly its almost like he is pandering to the fans or something, i'm thinking QB in some manipulated the nature of this special place and used that to defeat the dragons, one of which he thought was enough to keep the CG away.

[caladanbrood]

QB in Reaper's Gale is significantly more powerful than QB in Memories of Ice. As Fiddler observes after they'd beaten back Silchas Ruin in Letheras, "where in Hood's name did all that magic come from? Quick had never showed anything like that before. Not even close."

QB says himself, the more he stretches himself, the more powerful he gets. The sister's fatal mistake was to underestimate him - they hardly even bothered worrying about the threat he might represent, which is never a good idea, as Korbal and Bauchlain found out on a far lesser scale;)
Their other problem, of course, is that they were fighting amongst themselves. QB didn't kill any of the three, and was basically drained by his efforts.

[phart]

caladanbrood;185541 said:

QB in Reaper's Gale is significantly more powerful than QB in Memories of Ice. As Fiddler observes after they'd beaten back Silchas Ruin in Letheras, "where in Hood's name did all that magic come from? Quick had never showed anything like that before. Not even close."

QB says himself, the more he stretches himself, the more powerful he gets. The sister's fatal mistake was to underestimate him - they hardly even bothered worrying about the threat he might represent, which is never a good idea, as Korbal and Bauchlain found out on a far lesser scale;)
Their other problem, of course, is that they were fighting amongst themselves. QB didn't kill any of the three, and was basically drained by his efforts.

Where does it say the more he stetches himself the more powerful he gets? All i read was after his rest after Iccy he got more nasty.


I know man i should let it go, lol.

But to go from someone who we are wondering can last against Tay to someone who knocks elient ascendants about 3 at a time, i know he took them by surprise but read what the one flying away (Sukul) thinks if she never sees him again it will be a life without fear. She is totally terrified of him, not thinking oh i wish we had been prepared, she also comments there is lots more to him to be fair.

Trust me i have read the passage so many times, trying to jutify this increase in power which is astronomical, he wasn't that drained at all, he walked back no problem in fact im not sure it mentions anything about himn being drained etc.(cue quote to prove me wrong, lol)

[polishgenius]

I think by 'nasty' he does mean powerful, rather than evil.

[caladanbrood]

p796 said:

Quick Ben staggered back to the summit.
Hedge dragged his eyes from the scene below and started at the wizard. "You look like Hood's own arse-wipe, Quick."
"Feel like it too, Hedge." He pivorted round, motion like an old man's

etc etc.

Clearly drained.

[fan_83]

darkwolf;185510 said:

At Simtal's party, when he switches bodies into Mammot, after Derudan empties her own warren. This is the first time we see him use seven warrens at once. I've used word "wrestled" in a more metaphorical way than I should, and I apologize.

Yes, I credit Hedge's recklessness Azath's quick intervention for an abrupt end of battle - but still, he didn't just evaporate like most of other people - he isn't harmed. And that is a contest of power with a Jaghut who managed to wound or cast off TA Soletakens and Silanah.



He also says that it was intentional ("it would be rude [...]") as he didn't want to kill Broach. Mind you, they were unconscious long enough for Emancipor to carry them into garden - which means if QB wanted to waste them, throwing a knife would do the trick. Or leaving a Moranth-produced bomb, just to be sure - not everyone is Oponn's Chosen.

Apart from exhaustion - it seems he planned to used that to catch Hood's hood (pun intended) - and have a long chit-chat with him.



Tay has left the order (fleed
from Kartool, more precisely - it's hinted in HoC and Banashar proves it in BH) and cut all ties with D'rek. His soul is again his own (Agayla, NoK). He certainly isn't blessed by her anymore - not to mention she tried to kill him as well during the all-my-priests-die routine.
That said, his own power is still impressive.

And we don't know neither the age of Tay nor the age of QB, so we can't assume that QB is younger.

what happened to reast is nothing more than a stunner.. after all qb himself know that he can;t win against reast and all hes doing is to buy time for fiddler to get close and allow the azath to capture reast...silanah and the other soletaken eleint bought more time than qb did

it still doesn;t negate the fact that he has to ambush the duo who was just there to talk to one another.. add in the fact that the warrens for teh duo is effected by the poison while qb isn;t

qb is a young guy compared to tays.. remember silverfox who called him a chimera and his assumed name is a name not long used.. also remember that silverfox has the memories of a 300+ sorceress..
qb is a young mage who absorbed the soul of 12 other mages.. the other mages may be physically older than him but when they merged.. its his souls thats in countrol...

tays may be kicked out of d'rel order but in the end of bonehunters its said that he came to an understanding with d'rek and that he still has her blessing.

or looking at another way.. once you are gifted power it can;t be taken away.. tay has been given power but qb hasn;t


also on another note... the 3 sisters fear and hate ruin but they still go up against him... they are warriors or fighters.. its normal ot fear an enemy but it doesn;t mean that they are weaker than the enemy..

[Gem Windcaster]

I think I will continue to disagree with what most people say about Quick Ben's powers. I think you're overestimate People like Ruin, and you underestimate Quick. Stop making excuses for people that eat dirt after fighting the wizard. It's their own fault that they suck. I don't care a bit about speculations on who can beat who - I only care about who beat who.

Although I always thought Quick was more powerful than anyone knew, I also think that the notion of the old ascendants as being more powerful than everyone else is wrong. What for examplre did Ruin do to win the title of Mr. Badass? Besides surviving an Azath, kill some lame Toblakai ascendants and kill off some poor edur and letheri. Quick has done worse stuff than that in his sleep. And I doubt the sisters were ready for what the world had become since they were active last time.
You have to admit, the proof are a bit empty.

[caladanbrood]

Gem Windcaster;185604 said:

What for examplre did Ruin do to win the title of Mr. Badass? Besides surviving an Azath, kill some lame Toblakai ascendants and kill off some poor edur and letheri. Quick has done worse stuff than that in his sleep. And I doubt the sisters were ready for what the world had become since they were active last time.

Don't really see what Ruin has to do with QB... but powerful enough for the three sisters to agree they needed to work together to take him down. And QB couldn't have defeated the three of them either, if they hadn't turned on themselves, one fled, and Hedge Ranalling another.

Likewise against Ruin, I don't reckon he'd have been able to match him on his own. It was the two cussers that gave him the edge.

[Gem Windcaster]

caladanbrood;185608 said:

Don't really see what Ruin has to do with QB...

Neither do I, honest.

caladanbrood said:

but powerful enough for the three sisters to agree they needed to work together to take him down. And QB couldn't have defeated the three of them either, if they hadn't turned on themselves, one fled, and Hedge Ranalling another.

So the fact that one was dead afraid of Quick doesn't matter? I still think the proof of the draconeans superiority is thin. I don't mean i know exactly what would happen if Quick and Ruin fought one on one, but so far there is not much evidence in favor of Ruin.

caladanbrood said:

Likewise against Ruin, I don't reckon he'd have been able to match him on his own. It was the two cussers that gave him the edge.

Sure, it's okay to believe that, but I just wonder what it would take for you to believe Quick could beat someone powerful? The way I see it, he already did. It's the difference between us...I just don't get it.

[caladanbrood]

Gem Windcaster;185612 said:

It's the difference between us...I just don't get it.

No, the difference between us is that you're not reading my posts. Where do I say he can't beat someone powerful?

[Gem Windcaster]

caladanbrood;185617 said:

No, the difference between us is that you're not reading my posts. Where do I say he can't beat someone powerful?

Heh, I didn't mean it like that that. I asked what it would take before you thought he had beat someone powerful?

[caladanbrood]

Gem Windcaster said:

but I just wonder what it would take for you to believe Quick could beat someone powerful?

IE - I don't believe it already.

[fan_83]

Gem Windcaster;185604 said:

I think I will continue to disagree with what most people say about Quick Ben's powers. I think you're overestimate People like Ruin, and you underestimate Quick. Stop making excuses for people that eat dirt after fighting the wizard. It's their own fault that they suck. I don't care a bit about speculations on who can beat who - I only care about who beat who.

Although I always thought Quick was more powerful than anyone knew, I also think that the notion of the old ascendants as being more powerful than everyone else is wrong. What for examplre did Ruin do to win the title of Mr. Badass? Besides surviving an Azath, kill some lame Toblakai ascendants and kill off some poor edur and letheri. Quick has done worse stuff than that in his sleep. And I doubt the sisters were ready for what the world had become since they were active last time.
You have to admit, the proof are a bit empty.

you are entitles to your opinion of courser.. but there are some points which are up for discussion

first of all.. qb did not defeat/beat the 3 sisters.. he delivered a blow but the fight was postponed before it could be finished.. same with the case with ruin and qb.. therefore i believe your analogy is flawed

the theory that older beings are more powerful than younger ones are generally true.. cos the older one gets, the more experience, the more time one has to learn the depths of ones magics and abilities.. also not to mention that in SE universe, a mage gains more power as they live longer...

what has ruin done to be called a badass.. how bout leading an army to kill the k'chain.. he has personally killed hundreds of k'chain and maybe even one or 2 matrons.. thats way more than what qb has done... esp if you recall that in moi, an army of malaz got whipped by undead kchain.. and that ruin is facing live ones..

we judge power by the fear and awe exhibited by the people around them.. cos if we use your rating systems.. then rake is also a wimp as he lost at pale and only defeat a measly demon lord and thats it..
while nearly every knowledgeable mage in SE universe fears him and that hes the only one to be granted the title of archmage....

[Illuyankas]

darkwolf;185975 said:

Aren't you overstating his merits a little?

True, he and Scabby destroyed the four sky fortresses (with a little help of Tiste suicide squads). That we know. He also personally helped Tiste Andii fight K'ell Hunters, as it is stated in MT.

But look at the death toll for Tiste Andii before the Betrayal:
About four hundred thousand Tiste dead, two thousand live.

They literally buried the K'Chain under their dead bodies - they were even more whipped than Dujek's and Caladan's army.

While destroying of that K'Chain army is a great feat, it does not tell us anything about Ruin himself.

Well, he did kill at least one Matron, 'with power to beggar the gods of today', and then slaughter what must have been thousands of KCCM personally. And I'm pretty sure he would have lasted a lot longer against Iccy than Trull did, slight injuries or not.

[fan_83]

darkwolf;185975 said:

First, about Tays:
He came to understanding after D'rek tried to kill him (as well as other priests).
That doesn't suggest he is blessed - more like powerful enough to actually reason with the goddess. And threaten Shadowthrone, if we are at it.

Which makes him kind of powerful - but with different kinof power (innate vs. given).

That is confirmed by mhybe/Caladan Brood talk in MoI, and is not limited to mages. Brood isn't exactly a mage, isn't he?

Aren't you overstating his merits a little?

True, he and Scabby destroyed the four sky fortresses (with a little help of Tiste suicide squads). That we know. He also personally helped Tiste Andii fight K'ell Hunters, as it is stated in MT.

But look at the death toll for Tiste Andii before the Betrayal:
About four hundred thousand Tiste dead, two thousand live.

They literally buried the K'Chain under their dead bodies - they were even more whipped than Dujek's and Caladan's army.

While destroying of that K'Chain army is a great feat, it does not tell us anything about Ruin himself.



You must remember that he wields that nice, black sword with kind of a big prison inside, where you serve a life sentence. With chains that neither Eleints nor Elder Gods could break - and that can be easily confirmed by the sword's creator, Draconus, who is one of the confirmed victims of Rake. To top that, he is a swordsman of similar class to Tool, Mok or Dassem Ultor.
And that would cover his "physical" provess - we haven't touched his magics yet.

Bottom line: you want to pull the cart for all eternity? Cross swords with Rake.

Now, as far his magic power goes:
He was powerful enough to chain three pure blooded Eleints in Kurald Emurlahn (BH). Plus, in his Soletaken form his throat is described as one of the true gates to Kurald Galain (MoI) - as we are at it, mere opening of his warren seems to instill either plain fear or heavy discomfort into most mortal and immortal hearts (Baruk's, for one). That effect is referenced in HoC, so it isn't GotMism.

His fight at Pale might have gone differently, if he didn't have to protect Moon's Spawn and the city inside it - as we know from his talk with Baruk, he can't be everywhere, and he stated that he used most of his power to kill whatever Tay has summoned.

To sum it up: maybe we didn't see him kick ass magical-wise, but there are solid foundations to believe he is able to, if challenged.

(By the way: as we rate Rake, we also rate Osserc - as it is implied that in their endless clashes there were times when the former one won - and sometimes the latter did. Which shows they have about the same amount of power...)

Title of archmage is just GotMism, in my opinion, as he is not referenced as such in later novels.

i may not have the numbers at hand but if memory serves.. theres 20000 andii and 100000 edur i think vs 40-60000 kchain.. now if i remember correctly.. the andii went up front head on against the hunters which are the elite while the edur went up against the rest of the kchain army...
also note that not all the andii are warriors .. as noted in the earlier books..

vs those at coral were undead hunters vs all warriors.. i am not sure about the numbers at coral.. but its in the low thousand i think..

[Dolorous Menhir]

darkwolf;185975 said:

That is confirmed by mhybe/Caladan Brood talk in MoI, and is not limited to mages. Brood isn't exactly a mage, isn't he?

Nitpick. Brood is a confirmed user of D'riss and High Denul. Definitely a mage, as well as other things.