[Ammanas]

Ok, most of my confusion gets cleared up by reading this forum or re-reading the books. BUT..the one thing I haven't gotten in the Bonehunters is Apsalar. First, why did she have to kill the people on Shadowthrone's list, wasn't she freed at the end of GOTM? Or did she make some implied deal with Cotillion having to do with Crokus in Midnight Tides?

Two, what is going on with that shadow dance in Poliel's temple--she kicked a HOUND through a wall? That really pushes it for me--the 64K question, though, was why did Shadowthrone think Cotillion sliced up the hounds? Was it only the skill required that led him to believe it was the Rope?

A couple of general questions and observations:

What is Tayschrenn doing holed up in Malaz City? Why doesn't he take down Mallick and Korbolo? Second, where was he when Tavore was about to confront Shaik?

[Dolorous Menhir]

james9700;180535 said:

Ok, most of my confusion gets cleared up by reading this forum or re-reading the books. BUT..the one thing I haven't gotten in the Bonehunters is Apsalar. First, why did she have to kill the people on Shadowthrone's list, wasn't she freed at the end of GOTM? Or did she make some implied deal with Cotillion having to do with Crokus in Midnight Tides?

I think so, she entered into a kind of service to Shadow in HoC.

Quote

Two, what is going on with that shadow dance in Poliel's temple--she kicked a HOUND through a wall? That really pushes it for me--the 64K question, though, was why did Shadowthrone think Cotillion sliced up the hounds? Was it only the skill required that led him to believe it was the Rope?

Apsalar has the Rope's moves. So they thought it was him.

Quote

What is Tayschrenn doing holed up in Malaz City? Why doesn't he take down Mallick and Korbolo?

Tays has pretty unconventional views on when to take action. He seems quite happy to sit around and do nothing. His first concern always seems to be the very long term of things, not short-term considerations. Plus, he was lying low throughout BH in case QB called him up, since he was acting as his shaved knuckle.

Quote

Second, where was he when Tavore was about to confront Shaik?

He wasn't in HoC at all that I can remember, so it's a bit unfair to expect him to be there for the climactic battle at the end. Presumably he was still on Genebackis at the time, or attending to some other business around the Empire. Tavore was sent to retake Seven Cities with zero magical support for a reason - there was nobody to spare.

[Skywalker]

The way I read/ remember it, Apsalar was too much like Cotillion by the time they had that discussion in Pust's temple... She knew she couldnt help but be an assassin, and Cotillion just conveniently had a mission waiting for her... Also, she wanted to leave Cutter alone because she was saddened by what he was turning into because of being with her (or some such). So Cot became the kindly father figure that offered her a way out...

As for Tayschrenn... I suppose he was still with the Malazan delegation that landed at Black Coral while the events of HoC unfolded...

[Kurt Montandon]

james9700;180535 said:

Two, what is going on with that shadow dance in Poliel's temple--she kicked a HOUND through a wall? That really pushes it for me--the 64K question, though, was why did Shadowthrone think Cotillion sliced up the hounds? Was it only the skill required that led him to believe it was the Rope?

Shadowthrone knew it wasn't actually Cotillion who attacked the Hounds - but it was Cotillion's proxy, with his skills. That's why Shadowthrone said "That's what you think!" before leaving. Apsalar is essentially being viewed as an extension of Cotillion.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

I always kinda just thought that it was because of how she did what she did. Shadow Dancing is an assasination art, and it would therefore make sense that the penultimate master would be Cot. And that Cot would also be the only one powerful enough, and good enough at the Shadow Dance to take on the hounds with it. So Shadow Dance + Kicking Hounds of Shadows arses = Cottillion. Although I admitedly don't much remember the following conversation with Shadowthrone.

[Trotts]

Quote

What is Tayschrenn doing holed up in Malaz City?

I thought this had to do with the whole Drek issue. Like Tays mentions that he even went as far as to convince Drek not to kill him for whatever reasons. I always thought he was researching that whole situation while he was holed up.

[Aptorian]

One thing: Apsalars Shadowdancing is still a mystery. Is she getting shadowpower from the dance or is she truly ascended. We don't know but her kicking a horsesize creature through a wall, implies some level of power... read very powerfull.

Two: Tay is the big ignigma. Either SE has made the question of tays power intentionally into shit or there's more behind it. From GotM and onwards tay has slowly developed from the big buggyman into a weak-minded pussy without the will to act. Yet, with Kellanved and Dassem gone, he's the biggest power left alive in the empire.

[Kurt Montandon]

Aptorian;180776 said:

One thing: Apsalars Shadowdancing is still a mystery. Is she getting shadowpower from the dance or is she truly ascended. We don't know but her kicking a horsesize creature through a wall, implies some level of power... read very powerfull.

Keep in mind that Apsalar can draw on Meanas to supplement her Shadow Dancing, which is in itself aspected.

Also keep in mind that Shadow Dancing was originally an assassin's art. This is why the men at the tavern Apsalar entered at the beginning of BH were scared off by her, after she pointed out what she could do. As well, Lostara Yil recognized the pattern of cuts and stabs when she saw the massacred bodies of the Claw in Malaz City - she'd gone through part of the Shadow Dancing training, so that's why she was chilled by what she saw.

As well, Shadow Dancing seems to assert its own power over Meanas-Rashan, as Lostara reminisces about in HoC, and Pearl points out a bit later. It's a particular form of sorcery.

[Blend]

It could be that Shadowdancing taps into the REAL Shadow power, into whatever is left of KE, rather than tapping into Shadowthrone's powerbase (Meanas?). It could be that she's using powers beyond what ST has allowed Cot to give her or something along those lines?

[James Hetfield]

Surly obviously had a lot of faith in Tavore. No high mages were sent with her to 7C. A good leader will make sure things happen. Tavore manipulated Pearl into helping her and obviously has ties with the Talon.
Surly probably sent Dujek back to 7C to help assist Tavore and with QB being a for real High Mage, he was probably sent ahead to help with Shaik and her high mages. Maybe Dujek, Tay, or Surly sent him ahead, or perhaps he had a hunch about Fid and Kalam being there and wanted to help out the last couple Bridgeburners.
Not to mention Nil and Nether were there to help along with everything.

[Dark Mac]

Blend;181019 said:

It could be that Shadowdancing taps into the REAL Shadow power, into whatever is left of KE, rather than tapping into Shadowthrone's powerbase (Meanas?). It could be that she's using powers beyond what ST has allowed Cot to give her or something along those lines?

When Pearl comes in on Lostara after Cotillion visits her, she says it was just her Shadowdancing, and he believes her. So, Shadowdancing must use the same sort of power that Cotillion uses when not Shadowdancing, which should be Meanas.

[Blend]

Dark Mac;181177 said:

When Pearl comes in on Lostara after Cotillion visits her, she says it was just her Shadowdancing, and he believes her. So, Shadowdancing must use the same sort of power that Cotillion uses when not Shadowdancing, which should be Meanas.

Ah, good point...

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Unless Pearl isn't adept enough to tell the difference. We don't know exactly how good of a mage he is.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Lostara actually says in that scene that Shadow Dancing can invoke Meanas.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

Considering that ST and Cot live in the realm of shadow, why does everyone keep saying they are using Meanas? Meanas is just the branch of the Shadow Realm that is directly accessable to humans, but it does have it's own realm. Remember Warrens are a place as well as a source of power. Kulp travels bring the whole silanda through Meanas, which means it has to have its own at least minor realm.

The ST Shadow Realm os the Gateway to KE, and is thusly a branch off of KE and draws it's power from there. If the warrens are K'ruls viens, then it would kind of be like considering the Shadow Realm and Meanas as branches off the major artery that is Kurald Emerlahn. Or perhaps Meanas as a branch off SR wich branches off KE. I couldn't see Meanas as being the mother of the SR.

If this is the case, then they would all be using KE, or KE with slightly different "flavours" or "twists". This would explain why Pearl thought the SD was enough, as it may employ an almost identicle flow of magic. Plus ST and Cot are no longer human, so they may have access to flows of KE others don't, hence Pearl may not have fealt it before.

[Abyss]

As for why she was there, my theory is that Apsalar is ascended and sensed the convergence at Poliel's temple, so she used Shadow to travel there, figured out what was going on and delayed the Hounds long enough for Paran and QB to get clear.

As for the kick, it's not like she actually killed or even seriously hurt the Hound. It was hesitating because of the dragon-ghosts and probably because her power seemed like Cotillion's, and so she took advantage of the opportunity.

I really enjoyed Apsalar's parts in TB. She came a long way as a character, even if she seemed to end up where she started, alone getting drunk in a bar.

- Abyss, hopes the ghosts stick with her for a while.

[Aptorian]

Unless it's a GotM'ism the Hounds are supposed to be very powerfull indeed. No mortal weapon are supposed to be able to hurt them and Tattersail aswell as Hairlock in crazy chaos mode couldn't stand against them. Mesremb, the big soletaken bear in DG, was nearly torn to pieces by one of them.

So actually kicking a mule size ascendant beast through a wall, sounds pretty impressive even for a shadowdancing assassin. Of course her weapons are probably blessed by Cottillion which explains that she could slash one of them but using shadowdancing doesn't cut it, at least that's my opinion.

[Abyss]

The Hounds are linked to Shadow.
Aps uses the power of one of the gods in charge of Meanas, the Shadow warren, so she was operating on the same 'frequency' so to speak.

- Abyss, bad doggie, no cookie.

[jared1221]

Kicking a Hound through a wall when it's not expecting it, shouldn't be that hard to do for anyone with a bit of power (OK, a large bit). It's when the Hound steps out of the rubble that their real mettle is shown.:heyhey: