[Wiggles]

amphibian;186978 said:

I ain't sure how informed you are of pejoratives and slang, but the word "spade" is also used to refer to black people in a negative manner. It's actually offensive in most cases to say "spade" in public, unless it is explicitly clear you are referring to the digging implement.

A better phrase would be "I call them like I see them."

Was that in any, and I mean ANY way necessary? Pedantic cuntitude is the first refuge of the pretentious non-intellectual. Par for the course as far as replies to his posts go, though.

I just wonder how long everyone is going to pretend he didnt hit the nail on its head with that summary of the forum's attitudes.

[paladin]

Well thats one thing he may have got close on wiggles, but the main point of the thread he whiffed so hard he fell out of his shoes.. which kind of is the point.. if you arent on topic, then what the hell are you doing in the thread(not directed at you, just making a general statement about people posting wackyass shit in topics)

[Wiggles]

the wackyass shit of the last page(ish) is a lot more interesting than the bland bukkake party everyone was having in here before that.

and you have issues if you wont say that the last bit was directed at me (too).

[Tif the Barber Boy]

Glass;186934 said:

I think people here need to start being critical thinkers on their own and not make a single post until they are informed and have thought all the way through a topic. But as is the case with most online forums that lack any consequences, people here bitch and vent and spew their tyranical thoughts as though they are gospel. And as soon as I step in and give another perspective I get shat on for it. Well, that is sincerely too bad. Because Forums are about communication and enjoyment, not dominance.

Mostly, what it is here, is some imagined elitist snobbery that pervades the readership here. As if you are part of something greater than the rest. haha So sad.

Ummm... this was an odd post. Particularly in the context of this thread, where, as far as I can tell, everyone was being pretty polite to Glass (except xanth who was pissed off at being called a b*itch). I was actually finding the discussion interesting with Glass' and Werthead's inside info on the newer Dune (and other) books.

I guess it has something to do with the Bonehunters cover thread - which I for one haven't even read. But I find this rather odd. If you get into some kind of argument/flame war on one thread with someone, why start with all this hate for the entire forum?

Bizarre.

[Scifreak]

Glass;185490 said:

God you people are whiney bitches. NO ONE is Frank Herbert. You go in expecting Frank Herbert, you are going to be disappointed. It is simple logic.

Bitch and bitch and bitch and then moan about it. Do it. But get over yourselves. You are bitching about something that you can't even BEGIN to compare. There is only one Frank Herbert, and he's in the grave. If you don't like what Brian and Kevin are doing, DON'T READ IT. Is that spelled out enough for you?

Brutally, friend, brutally


Not by your post but by the god-awful fiction peddled.

Forgive me for thinking that a Sci-Fi work of genius that even dragged mainstream writers and readers in should be treated with the same degree of excellence. Clearly substandard sequels are ALLOWED in SF but get savaged in mainstream lit. Yes we should always lower our standards because its SF/Fantasy

[Scifreak]

Werthead;186814 said:

Are there writers of the same calibre as Frank Herbert still alive? Sure. Scott Bakker has a very similar prose style to Herbert. If he'd published his trilogy ten years earlier and come to prominence, maybe he could have done these Dune books justice. Probably not though, as he has his own stories he wants to write.

Kevin J. Anderson is a poor dictator (he doesn't write, he dictates onto DATs and some minion types his blather out for him). His Star Wars novels are rubbish. His X-Files novels are better, but still poor. Resurrection Inc. is ambitious, but derailed by a weak prose style. Climbing Olympus is okay but nothing special. Why Brian Herbert agreed for him to work on this trilogy, I don't know, save that Anderson's high output rate would allow the cow to be thoroughly milked year-in, year-out, every year for at least eleven years and thus Brian would be able to afford his new conservatory.

The story of how Brian and Kevin found the working notes for Dune 7 is well-told. That story also states that they found those notes only after planning the Legends and Preludes trilogies. Dune 7 may broadly be what Frank Herbert intended, but none of the elements from the Legends and Preludes trilogies that are there were supposed to be in it (the 'Enemy' being thinking machines was probably Herbert Snr's intention all along though). So, in that sense, what we are getting is Frank Herbert's vision filtered through the fan fiction that KJA has conjured up. This is not the book Frank Herbert would have written even if the prose styles were identical.



Children of Hurin is an interesting case. It is not aimed at the Tolkien completists and obsessives who have poured over The Silmarillion, The History of Middle-earth and Unfinished Tales for the past thirty years. It is aimed, in Christopher Tolkien's intent (and this was JRRT's as well for his three 'Great Tales'), at the mass-audience who enjoy The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings but have been scared off from The Silmarillion by its status as a 'difficult' book. Naturally, HarperCollins didn't really mention this in their marketing. To anyone who already has Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin is probably not worth it (75% of the story appears in the earlier book), save for the wonderful Alan Lee illustrations. That's a failure of the publisher, not the editor.

CT has always shown the greatest respect and fidelity to his father's work. He has never backed down from saying that the books he has published contain early drafts and incomplete fragments with some editorial commentary. He has never pretended they were novels or completed works in themselves. As a result, those books have sold a miniscule fraction of what the 'proper' JRRT books have sold. If CT were truly a hack, he would simply sit back and wait for the cash to roll in from royalty payments (50 million copies of Lord of the Rings have been sold since 2000) which, as Tolkien's literary heir and executor, go straight to him, rather than spending 23 years of effort working on the 'History' series and other books.

David Gemmell's wife is completing the final Troy book. This is a book which David Gemmell had himself finished about 50% of and had completed a very detailed outline for the remaining chapters. He talked to his wife at length about every book he wrote; she was his editor and first reader as well, and helped research the Troy series. This should ensure that the final book is as close as possible to what Gemmell intended, even if the prose is not quite the same. This is not the same as shoehorning your own ideas into an existing outline with no respect for the author's original intentions (see: KJA).

Robert Jordan's situation is unknown. I believe the plan is to publish what he's completed so far and then the outline of the remainder of the story rather than have his wife Harriett - who is his editor - attempt to complete the book. However, RJ's health seems stable at the moment and it looks reasonably hopeful that he will complete the book himself.

well hes dead now AFAIK. So no more more entertaining fictions, and no more worrying fixation on corporal punishment from him

[Zelech]

amphibian;186978 said:

I ain't sure how informed you are of pejoratives and slang, but the word "spade" is also used to refer to black people in a negative manner. It's actually offensive in most cases to say "spade" in public, unless it is explicitly clear you are referring to the digging implement.

A better phrase would be "I call them like I see them."

I don't know where you live, where you're from, or how you were raised--but that phrase has to do with spades & shovels, and how a spade == shovel but shovel does not always = spade. Anyone who feels discriminated by that saying is wrong & foolish, unless it is explicity used in a a discriminatory context--and I don't stay in the presence of those who would even contemplate such except for legalistic issues alike this. After all, anything can be used to hurt another, but it is wise to stay away from those who are negative, lest you too allow mediocrity to enter your life.


I read KJA's Star Wars books when I was a kid, and I liked them. They were simplistic, action-packed books. Then I read Zahn's Thrawn books, and found those to be amazing. Having re-read books as an adult, theres no comparison--complex & tight writing > action-packed yet simplistic drabble. Had I not the strategical/tactical mindset I have been blessed by God with, I would have certainly enjoyed KJA's books better--they're easier to jump into, the plots aren't too complex to understand, etc.

I've only read one Dune book, and it was (suggested by another person, as to what to start with) House Atreides. And it was ... mediocre, when viewed at with a complex mind. It doesn't stand up to works of Erikson's, Zahn's, Jordan's, etc.

But it wasn't bad. It was bad relative to what I read, but it wasn't bad. That's the difference many of you need to see--just how Dragonlance is "rubbish" to you & me, doesn't make it rubbish. Others see Malazan as "rubbish", because its so complex it doesn't make sense to most people--why would anyone in their right mind want to allocate all that time to read the doorstopper, and allocate memory to remember all those names & personalities & ideas & so forth...

[Abyss]

paladin;182179 said:

Dune has been awful since God Emperor Dune(other than the funny torture of a million duncan idahos), so I don't know why you expected anything

Duncan Idaho was like South Park's Kenny... he kept dying in horrible ways only to be brought back again....

"Oh my god, HE KILLED DUNCAN IDAHO!!!"

"You BASTARD my lord God-Emporer worm dude, hey, how about some spice?"

I did read some of KJA's SW books back in the day. They were adequate - i did like one bit where Han's son stole the Milenium Falcon, ended up in a dogfight and took out the bad guys, but that was as far as it went.

- Abyss, bets KJA really REALLY wanted to get his hands on the Wheel of Time...

[Aptorian]

I recently gave up on the fourth book in the saga of seven suns. I read the first two a couple of years ago and decided recently to try again. One and a half books later, I was more frustrated than when I read Goodkinds Temple of the Winds.

How can humanity four centuries into the future be such pussies? Why don't they have fission or fussion weapons any longer? If a solarflare can knock out a hundred hydrogue diamond spheres, you can bet your sweet ass that a nuclear device will send them packing aswell.

And why did nobody, taking human beings natural sceptisme against the unknown into account, not see the fucking klikliss robot attack coming? REALLY!

And why don't the smartest, bestest human beings, the roamers, have any weapons WHAT SO EVER!!! Not even a fucking jazer to knock out an asteroid. It's mindbumbingly stupid.

Ohh I hate that series, so much promise, such a god awfull author. I'm tempted to label him the Goodkind of Sci-fi.

[paladin]

Aptorian;267741 said:

How can humanity four centuries into the future be such pussies?

Easy to see with the direction of society

[QuickTidal]

I read KJA's Jedi Academy series very recently, and oh my god was it awful. When I was half way through the second book I wanted to stick a fork in my eye, just so I could stop reading it.

I hear tell he dictates now and doesn't really write at all, and the credit for the ACTUAL process of the writing down goe4s to someone else...and he just sits there, all fat, speaking aloud to some poor secretary.

Sigh, KJA needs to go hang out with Goodkind in a shark tank.

[pastures]

Dear Mr Glass,

I can see where you are coming from. However, i do not agree with some of your points.

Firstly, you are right that there is only one Frank Herbert and that anyone else writing Dune 7 is not going to be as good. That said, why does it have to be so bad? Why can't it be very good, even if it's not outstanding?

There are millions of fans who wanted to know how the Dune saga ends. However, i feel that Brian and KJA went about it all wrong. By writing the prequels, you ALREADY KNEW what the ending would be. They effectively killed the entire story years before it came out. This is why Frank was so careful not to reveal too much backstory. The weight of history (and the fog of the past) is a well-crafted tool by Frank meant to add mythos and suspense to the story. KJA has effectively destroyed this. So, no. I do not think that the storytelling has gotten better at all. They ruined the whole series for me. I am very sad about it all.

As for KJA's writing. Well, i have to say it seems that he writes more for a young adult audience than an adult one. This is not acceptable for a classic piece of literature like Dune.

All that aside, i do thank Brian and KJA for fleshing out the story and bringing closure to an important part of my life. And i am even thankful that they have brought the Dune universe to a wider audience. I am just sad that the true fans, those that waited years for the ending, were left out to dry by the incompetent writing of KJA. Almost anyone else would have been better.

And let me tell you, this forum only bitches about other writers if there is good reason for it. In fact, there aren't that many writers that this forum bitches about. This is even more surprising given the number of mediocre or poor writers out there. This forum merely has something against those poor writers that are high profile/successful, because they do not deserve it. And for all their bitching, this forum does back it up with proof. So unless you come back with proof of KJA's brilliant writing, I'm afraid you are defending the wrong side.

And might I just add. It is in everyone's interest that we complain about authors we do not like. I, for one, take heed when this forum says an author should be avoided. This saves me precious time and money.

Are we snobbish? Unashamedly so! Only the best will do for us, thank you very much.

Far from being negative, this forum has been positive for me as a lay reader of SFF.

Best,
pastures