[Skywalker]

Sorry if this has been talked about before... I couldn't meaningfully search the forums because most keywords are so common and appear in so many places...

I was re-reading the series prepping for Reaper's Gale to release, and noticed something.

In MOI, Olar Ethil tells SilverFox that he went hunting for the lost T'lan Imass clans... to quote "The four remaining clans of Bentract T'lan Imass are on Jacuruku, I believe, yet trapped within the Warren of Chaos"

And then later in MT, the child Rud Elalle tells Udinaas and Feather Witch that the T'lan Imass with him are Bentract.

Does that make Jackuruku the Letherii continent? Of course, not sure how tightly coupled warrens (especially Chaos) are to physical continents... can one be in the warren of chaos while on Jackuruku and be accessible via a gate to someone on the Letherii continent (assuming they are separate)?

[Tabris]

As a side question to this, do we get an expanded map of Lether in RG?

[Dolorous Menhir]

sky_walker;178614 said:

And then later in MT, the child Rud Elalle tells Udinaas and Feather Witch that the T'lan Imass with him are Bentract.

Udinaas met those Imass, and his son, in one of his weird vision/spirit quests. His body may have been on Lether, but that doesn't mean those Imass were on the same continent.

[tjc52]

There is also a point, apart from when Udinaas meets Rud Ellal, when he finds the T'lan Imass. On the journey with the edur Army south to Lether, there is a point when Wither tells him that the valley his is stood in is filled with the dust of some 4000 Imass, who could "rise up and lsuaghter you all", or words to that effect. Those Imass definitly are on Lether, though I suppose theres no reason to assume they're Bentract.

There is also the separate question of where the Logros have gone. Monok Ochem says that they have left the first throne, because Logros has anticipated an "imminent need" for them somewhere else. Where? and what is the need?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Assail presumably. Along with Silverfox and the Kron.

[Abyss]

tjc52;178654 said:

...Those Imass definitly are on Lether, though I suppose theres no reason to assume they're Bentract....

Or othewise, no reason to assume they are ALL of the Bentract, even if they are. Clans seem to have more than one Bonecaster.

Presumably these are just the ones who, pursuing crazed post Ritual First Empire shapeshifters, followed their Bonecaster through/to the gate before she decided becoming a crystal art deco piece was an appropriate thing to do at the time and pitched them all into a life of slack in SD.

- Abyss, will never complain about a travel agent again.

[kcf]

Tabris;178615 said:

As a side question to this, do we get an expanded map of Lether in RG?

Yes - there is a complete map of the continent in RG

[kcf]

I mispoke - the map is really just the mid-poritions of the continent where the Lether Empire is located. The continent does extend further to the north and southeast beyond the map coverage. The area of Lether shown in the MT map covers less than 10% of the map in RG.

[pat5150]

I've perused it last night and all the important stuff is there. Other than the northern frozen and desolated lands. And the legendary eastern wastelands, of course!

Patrick

[Monoch Ochem]

sky_walker;178614 said:

Does that make Jackuruku the Letherii continent? Of course, not sure how tightly coupled warrens (especially Chaos) are to physical continents... can one be in the warren of chaos while on Jackuruku and be accessible via a gate to someone on the Letherii continent (assuming they are separate)?

I'm inclined to think not because Lether just doesn't seem like the place that Kallor/the CG's fall destroyed. I think it has more links with the First Empire (the Soeltaken ritual that went mad, the Jheck etc).

But it's a good question. The battleground of the KCCM/Tiste armies was partly composed of huge tiles. The description seems similar to the place that Silchas Ruin showed (Kettle?) in that vision of the CG's fall...

Anyone recall this or am I confused?

[Mael]

Monoch Ochem;180262 said:

I'm inclined to think not because Lether just doesn't seem like the place that Kallor/the CG's fall destroyed. I think it has more links with the First Empire (the Soeltaken ritual that went mad, the Jheck etc).

But it's a good question. The battleground of the KCCM/Tiste armies was partly composed of huge tiles. The description seems similar to the place that Silchas Ruin showed (Kettle?) in that vision of the CG's fall...

Anyone recall this or am I confused?

Jacuruku and the Letherii continent are seperate continents. As are the Jacuruku and the continent of Korelri where the CG's fall occured.

FA = Unknown (presuambly assail)

KCCM Empire = Everywhere except Seven Cities. We havent been told specifically where they began. My guess would be either Morn in southern Genebackis (where the KCCM made thier last stand so to speak) or Jacuruku based on the large amount of KCCM artifacts littering the entire continent (by Kallor's description).

First Empire (Imass) = Seven Cities

First Human Empire = Seven Cities (Colonies on Letherii Continent and elsewhere). The Failed Soletaken ritual initially occured in the capital on Seven Cities but was designed to encompase the entire First Empire, subsequently spreading the destruction to its colonies aswell. The Jheck and the pack are the result of the rituals effect on the Letherii colony.

Kallorian Empire - Jacuruku. Kallor used (allegedly) KCCM Technology to decimate his empire on Jacuruku and destroy all of its inhabitants before the arrival of K'rul, Draconus and Nightchill. K'rul then created a warren to contain the memory (for lack of a better term) of the ravaged continent so that the continent could heal. This warren is the Malazan Imperial warren. This was on Jacuruku. Kallor also mentions the thousands of KCCM artifacts that were constantly discovered and studied by his people

CG's Fall = Korelri (brought down as a defence against the Kallorian Empire's expansion). This is the Continent Silchas Ruin showed Kettle (or was it Brys) when they were viewing the fall of the Crippled God.

At the beginning of MoI we see K'rul walking across the continent of Korelri viewing the destuction wrought by the fall of the crippled god while we read his internal monologue. He then opens a warren and arrives on the shores of Jacuruku while nightchill and draconus arrive on opposite shores. This is most likely where the confusion between Jacuruku and Korelri comes from with regard to the location of the fall of the CG.

[Kurt Montandon]

Mael;180332 said:

Kallorian Empire - Jacuruku. Kallor used (allegedly) KCCM Technology to decimate his empire on Jacuruku and destroy all of its inhabitants before the arrival of K'rul, Draconus and Nightchill. K'rul then created a warren to contain the memory (for lack of a better term) of the ravaged continent so that the continent could heal. This warren is the Malazan Imperial warren.

It wasn't a memory, it was the actual physical substance. He simply sloughed off the top of the continent, as best can be determined.

Mael;180332 said:

CG's Fall = Korelri (brought down as a defence against the Kallorian Empire's expansion). This is the Continent Silchas Ruin showed Kettle (or was it Brys) when they were viewing the fall of the Crippled God.

It was Brys, as he recounts to the Ceda. The Ceda's response makes me wonder just how much they know about the Crippled God in Letheras.

[Mael]

kmmontandon;180336 said:

It wasn't a memory, it was the actual physical substance. He simply sloughed off the top of the continent, as best can be determined.

Thats pretty much it. He removed the damage incurred by the continent and placed it in a warren. The Imperial Warren is in essence an unhealing memory of the destruction that occured on Jacuruku. Kind of like a shadow of the actual continent at the time of its dessimation. That's what i was attempting to imply.

[spiralx]

Hmmm, wonder if the KCCM developed nukes...? That would explain all of the ash.

[Silander]

ssss

[Silander]

I?ve just registered and replied to posts twice now and for some reson they didn?f post, errg, they were lengthy ones too (I should have copied and pasted but its late).
Anyways, its mentioned in MT that the letherii landmass is a sub-continant.
It occurs to me that Erikson pays attention to details like geography. The city of lether is quite warm, sultry even to cite Tehol. North of the Edur home-lands is quite cold, so there must be a good bit of a stretch between them even if Lether is in land (making it wrmer in Summer).
Does the RG map have any arrows hinting at other landmasses nearby?
The avowed were mentioned to have come out of Assail.

Warrens: Looked into this when I was writing a roleplaying scenario for a con. Set in the malazan world. The warrens aren?t tied to the continents. Chaos isn?t a warren either, it?s the paths between the warrens themselves, as Quick Ben points out. (Hence hairlock breaking into lots of warrens but not sealing up the damage behind him, doing lots of harm).
He also suggests that the imperial warren might have belonged to the KCCM (way before Kallor came along I?m sure).
In midnight tides some one (can?t remember who) makes a cryptic remark about things changing when the Edur arrived from their world of magic.

AS for the Bentract, well they could just be lost, a small group, the others in the warren could be lost too. The wraith wither, informs Udinass that the T?lan imass are travelling beneath their feet as dust and that they are perhaps un-interested in rising up to deal with the edur. It seems that they are on they?re way to the summons (Silverfox). In MoI Quick Ben and cohorts find the pressure, crushed corpse of an edur (the one presumably that Mael tosses into his warren, is it Alhadra ahn? During the Edur taking of the city of Lether. ) That puts it around that time. If they were on the same continant as those T?lan imass, a bone caster would have detected them, unless they are slightly out of time? Wouldn?t be the first time that happened in the books.