[Abyss]

Please, this is a medieval fantasy setting... Flypaper, obviously.

Mailik's point re Olar is an excellent one, btw. In theory, she could just sit still and blow Tellan fire on them. I suppose en masse bloodfly's chewing on skeleton might be a problem tho'.

- Abyss, ew.

[Locke Reaper]

This might have come up before but there don' seem to be any modern soletaken/d'ivers aroundexcept for bulk, who was enchanted by an god.

does that mean that the necromancers are first empire or is it that most sorcerors/mages today just choose not to take up shapeshifting as a hobby?

[Coco with marshmallows]

if i had to choose, i'd say the modern ones don't want to risk it.

it is after all, entirely possible to become 'lost' in your changed form (treach, dude from MOI whose name excapes me, etc) unless you know what you're doing.

as a result, rather than risk that loss of personality, they look at other routes to power.

Coco, notes that Chuck norris would probably beat Wolverine (sorry Abyss )

[Coco with marshmallows]

thanks, Buke was the guy in MOI i was thinking of.

Coco, notes that wolverine and chuck did spar once. Chuck lost a testicle. It's now more commonly known by its scientific name. Jupiter.

Interestingly, chuck still has two testicles. no-one knows if he started with three, or simply grew another. And no-one has dared ask him. Ever.

[Mael]

Locke Reaper;178748 said:

This might have come up before but there don' seem to be any modern soletaken/d'ivers aroundexcept for bulk, who was enchanted by an god.

does that mean that the necromancers are first empire or is it that most sorcerors/mages today just choose not to take up shapeshifting as a hobby?

As i said earlier there are many paths to becoming a soletaken, from drinking the blood of Tiam, touching the blood of a hound or eating a magical clay bird. Bouchelain and Brooch could have come upon thier soletaken forms in any number of ways.

My statement about the First Empire was related to the D'ivers specifically since they were the undesired result of the failed ritual.

Quote

Definitely seems as if the more modern soletaken can't handle it. Was there something about Buke refusing to come out of his sparrowhawk form?

Bulk was a very troubled individual who found solace in his soletaken form. Whether he is gone completely remains to be seen but it sure seems like he has decided that flying around without a care in the world is the way to go for him. Ganoes Paran on the other hand seems to have a solid handle on his soletaken form (for the most part) and is far more powerful for it.

[Locke Reaper]

Paran doesn't veer into a hound does he?

As for silverfox she is a bit of a mix breed, some bonehunter and some god intervention, she was born a soletaken she did not choose to become one.

Can't you just decide to become a soletaken bunny if you felt like it? does it require numerous mages to do a ritual in unison to work?

As for chuck norris...saw bruce lee whip his butt this morning....hahaha:D
really made my day!!!

[Trotts]

Paran is special, hes not soletaken, he simply has the blood of a Hound in him.

As for Silverfox, she was born in a ritual of power and was to be a bonecaster. I don't think we've met any bonehunters that are not also soletaken, so perhaps the Imass have some unique way of attaining soletakenness.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Poleil said Paran wasn't a Soletaken Hound, for what that's worth. He doesn't appear to be able to turn into one at will.

There are plenty of "modern" Soletaken who presumably weren't born that way. I don't know how people become Soletaken.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Quick Ben is a Soletaken, Bauchelain and Korbal Broach are Soletaken. There are no doubt plenty of others too. Since Buke's method (getting a statue from an Elder God and eating it) is not widely available, there must be a commonplace way to do it, that's not lost. The notion of being Soletaken is pedestrian in the Malazan world in a way that "soul-shifting" is not, which makes me think it's a common technique.

I wonder if Tayschrenn has a Soletaken form.

[Abyss]

Paran is not soletaken. He used the Hounds' power a couple of times, involuntarily, in GM (against the Finnest/primeval Jaghut) and MoI (against the condor and Kilava). In TB he only used the strength and fooled Poliel.

QB may or may not be soletaken. In GM someone ref'd a 'spicy' smell when he used his warrens that later is ref'd in the context of shapeshifters, and in MoI we find out one of his souls was soletaken. And the Tennes witch ref'd him as a 'desert snake' for what that's worth.

- Abyss, also thinks QB is Jim Morrison.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Yeah, it's pretty widely accepted. I can't remember the actual reason why we think so, but it's probably a good one.

Poll: http://www.malazanem...read.php?t=3712

[Abyss]

Mael;178780 said:

...

My statement about the First Empire was related to the D'ivers specifically since they were the undesired result of the failed ritual...

We don't know that, actually. There's a comment in HoC, Onrack to Trull i think, to the effect that Dessimbelackis was already d'ivers BEFORE the Ritual nuked the FE.

Point being, i thought the Ritual was intended to turn the entire First Empire into shapeshifters, presumably but not certainly soletaken, but it blew and the FE apparently ended up with multitudes of insane shapeshifters of both types.

The other option tho', working loosely from Trake's comment re Ryallandas learning to control the change, is that only especially accomplished soletaken become d'ivers. So perhaps everyone does start with one form and a few work their way up from there.

- Abyss, like climbing the corporate ladder, only with teeth and claws and bloodshed... wait, that's EXACTLY like the corporate ladder...

[Battalion]

When Paran veers into the hound, his body (the human soldier) is still visable in a hazy form, making him different to soletaken.

Quick Ben's soletaken form is Toc the Elder ... or Donkey.

[2daniel22]

Quick Ben is a SoulShifter and it is still unknown if he has a soletaken form. In one of the ealier books just after the battle at Pale Quick Ben comes up and does a soulshifting Magic where he binds a soul to a kind puppet.

Now SilverFox is called a Soletaken yet we have not seen or heard of what she can veer into yet we know she has 3 souls within her body.

Now Bottle is also someone who can Soul shift yet his is again something different to what Quick Ben does.

Now all 3 are example of older magic...