[Rat Mentor]

For what it's worth I alway thought that Shadowthrone is the real power between Cotillion and ST as he is the one sitting on the throne of shadow. Cotillion is Assassin to Shadow, and patron God of Assassin's, and by definition, he is some way down on the power scale..

[paladin]

silchas ruin's name just oozes power, anomander rake oozes a destructive amphibian. ill go with ruin

[Jimmy]

Koryk of the Seti;164552 said:

if annomander didnt have draginpur he wudnt be all that cool but ruin now he is kick ass with any old sword and the fact that he did drink deeper means i think that in his soletaken form he wud rip just abut anyone apart

Remember he didn't have it when he took it of Draconus

[tjc52]

No, he had Grief, which seems to be a vastly more powerful weapon, albeit without quite the kudos that Dragnipur has. After all, bear in mind that with Grief, Rake, who Andarist said possessed the "necessary focus," would be unable to lose. He can lose with Dragnipur, because the sword itself doesn't contribute anything to the fighting capacity, only to the post fight capacity.

[Aptorian]

tjc52;167549 said:

No, he had Grief, which seems to be a vastly more powerful weapon, albeit without quite the kudos that Dragnipur has. After all, bear in mind that with Grief, Rake, who Andarist said possessed the "necessary focus," would be unable to lose. He can lose with Dragnipur, because the sword itself doesn't contribute anything to the fighting capacity, only to the post fight capacity.

I don't think you'e supposed to think of Dragnipur as a cumbersome blackhole Rake is dragging around with him.

Think about it, Rake has been killing things with that weapon for perhaps as much a hundred thousand years. Dragons, ascendants, soletaken or what ever monsters come in his way.

Now no matter how final the swords mere touch is, Rake still has to pierce/slice his oponent. He knows how to swing a sword and I think Rake is more than able to handle a match with Dassem/Dessembrae/Travler or who ever the guy is that has Grief.

[Abyss]

I'm blanking here... didn't Cutter, on seeing 'Darist with G/V, note that the weapon required a much different style than Dragnipur?

Of course, that would be explained by Draconus making Dragnipur while someone else, presumably Rake, made G/V.

As for Rake v Dassemveller... do i even need to say it...?

- Abyss, 'snikt'.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Rake vs Dassem???

My head just exploded.

[Abyss]

Dolorous Menhir;167590 said:

Rake vs Dassem???

My head just exploded.

yeah, and what colour were Traveller's eyes again...?

- Abyss, heehee...

[Dark Mac]

Aptorian;167552 said:

I don't think you'e supposed to think of Dragnipur as a cumbersome blackhole Rake is dragging around with him.

Think about it, Rake has been killing things with that weapon for perhaps as much a hundred thousand years. Dragons, ascendants, soletaken or what ever monsters come in his way.

Now no matter how final the swords mere touch is, Rake still has to pierce/slice his oponent. He knows how to swing a sword and I think Rake is more than able to handle a match with Dassem/Dessembrae/Travler or who ever the guy is that has Grief.

Yeah, but when wielding Grief with a singular will it's apparently literally impossible to lose. Obviously, the same is not so of Dragnipur.

[Monoch Ochem]

There's been some casual dismissing of Silchas here. Remember Udinaas' vision and what he perceived? Silchas somehow seems to have command of the wyval and indeed it was one, together with Wither who went to his rescue. Moreover, Silchas had more draconean blood than even Rake. It was said that Silchas would have accepted the mantle of godhood, whereas Rake shuns it.

Silchas Ruin led the assault against the KCCM and took on the Matrons....think how well defended would they have been. Without the Matron the Hive would be lost and he killed at least 1. Sheathed in blood and most of it his own, yet still Scabandari had to stab him in the back. As for sorcery, we know he healed Iron Bars etc after the Tarthenal so he does use sorcery and I'm pretty sure he can use SD. He was so powerful that even when held by the Azath, he could still spirit walk.

I think Silchas Ruin is WELL up there on the power scale. There are indicators. Seeing him in action though... that's one of the main things I'm looking forward to.

[Dolorous Menhir]

New prediction: Rhulad isn't going to fight Icarium or Karsa.

He's going to face Silchas Ruin instead, and die for his troubles.

[tjc52]

We've not seen him use sorcery. He didn't heal Iron Bars,, Iron Bars did that himself, being an Avowed. And it wasn't his own ability to spirit walk whilst held by the Azath. He himself said that that was a "gift from Mother Dark."

Note, that also implies that Mother Dark is perhaps not quite so isolated or uncaring as we have been led to believe, if she was prepared to intervene on behalf of Silchas, even after he had left her, and betrayed her by allying with the Edur.

Silchas obviously can use sorcery, we just havent seen it yet. He hasn't needed to show it too us. A bit like Rake, he prefer to do things the more mundane way, either with a sword, or as a dragon (which is inherantly sorcerous, in order to fly, as we're told on GotM).

[Monoch Ochem]

Oh...it was the Errant who did some healing. Now I recall. But Shurk Elalle did ask Ruin to heal Ublala. I think his response was that his skull was so thick and his brain so small that there would likely not be any cranial damage.

[Aptorian]

Dark Mac;167617 said:

Yeah, but when wielding Grief with a singular will it's apparently literally impossible to lose. Obviously, the same is not so of Dragnipur.

It's not impossible to loose in a sword fight, what is impossible is to be unbeatable in SE's universe.

What is obvious is that Rake wouldn't leave grief with his brother if he thought he needed it. Dragnipur, has it's own powers. Like Grief it will most likely just shed any magic thrown at it, it's not going to shatter by any normal means, and allthough it's huge Rake didn't have any problems fighting Seguleh with it, which would be the ultimate test.

[Onos]

Ruin's 'gift from mother dark' can quite likely be some racial or being a son benefit that he meant in a general term, or was even perhaps being sarcastic. It MIGHT mean she is more active, but all signs point to the contrary.

I assume they are fairly equal and the winner would only be decided in a specific situation. So just asking in general there is no way to say who is 'better'. There are simply too many variables and unknowns here, and very well could be two of the most powerful creatures on WU.

Someone mentioned Feather Witches forshadowing of Rake meeting Traveller or some such thing. Is there any more evidence to this?

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Onos;167788 said:

Ruin's 'gift from mother dark' can quite likely be some racial or being a son benefit that he meant in a general term, or was even perhaps being sarcastic. It MIGHT mean she is more active, but all signs point to the contrary.

I assume they are fairly equal and the winner would only be decided in a specific situation. So just asking in general there is no way to say who is 'better'. There are simply too many variables and unknowns here, and very well could be two of the most powerful creatures on WU.

Someone mentioned Feather Witches forshadowing of Rake meeting Traveller or some such thing. Is there any more evidence to this?

Yes indeed, though sadly my books are in Boston and I am not right now....In MT, she makes a prophecy, which I believe is a little more than halfway through the book (though I could be mistaken), concerning Rake.

The exact quote is lost to me, but I know it mentioned Rake coming up against his Grief, which I took to be a clear-cut signal. It's certainly debatable, but I would wager that a meeting between Dassem/Traveller and Rake is in the making.

[pat5150]

Too early to tell for certain, but from what I've seen so far, I can tell you that Silchas Ruin is one bad son of a gun! And he's a man on a mission, so there's no stopping him, it seems.

SE has created yet another intriguing character. Let us hope he'll survive this 7th volume...

Patrick
www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com

[Paran]

Grrr... if we werein a pub I swear you'd get bashed!

Seriously tho, stop with the hints - there's 2 months to go before release and the suspense is making me quite agitated.

As for Rake vs Ruin, I'd suggest that there's a bit of rivalry there, but Rake is the Champion for a reason.

[Aptorian]

Paran;167977 said:

Grrr... if we werein a pub I swear you'd get bashed!

Seriously tho, stop with the hints - there's 2 months to go before release and the suspense is making me quite agitated.

As for Rake vs Ruin, I'd suggest that there's a bit of rivalry there, but Rake is the Champion for a reason.

Uhm yeah he's the champion because somebody stabbed his brother and threw him in a big fat Azath, leaving him the last surviving (known) Andii ascendant.

No doubt when Ruin gets his stuff together he will also become a Champion of the Andii again.

[Monoch Ochem]

But this gift from MD...why assume it was given after he was imprisoned? Could it not be something he already had? Some attribute that maybe Rake also possesses as a first-child of MD?