Fid's last card game

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Fid's last card game

#1 Guest_aaronsan_*

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 03:50 PM

I looked through the threads, and didn't find an analysis of Fid's last card game in BH (the one T'adjunct ordered). Is this discussed somewhere, and I missed it?

If not, I'll open a discussion on it by posting the different cards/players and what I think they imply for the future, but I didn't want to go to the trouble if it had already been done.

I think it's pretty important, as far as predicting future events. Heck, maybe we'll be able to figure out if Kalam lives or dies, based on it. I recall he had several cards, including one from the House of Life.

And I recall that Bottle got Deathslayer (CG), right? Pretty interesting, no? I would have assumed that would be one of QBs cards. Anyways, awaiting a reply. Thanks!

-Aaron

#2 Obdigore

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 04:25 PM

THere have been 2 discussions I recall, let me see if I can go find one of them for ya.

Edit:
Only one I could find:
http://www.malazanem...read.php?t=5925

If you have other questions, do not hesitate to post them in there and people can start discussing them once more.

Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.

#3 Guest_aaronsan_*

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 07:00 PM

Obdigore;163198 said:

No, this is not a discussion of Fid's card game as ordered by T'Adjunct. This is a discussion of the new deck that Fid gets on the ship. There's about 100 pages between the two (638-640 and then 749-??? IIRC).

Thanks, though. I'll post my summary of that card game in a bit. It has some very interesting implications!

:cool:

-Aaron

#4 Guest_aaronsan_*

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 07:47 PM

OK, here we go! I think Kalam's cards should be read in reverse order, based on what Fid said, and QB had the last card, but it was dealt first so I listed it first.

QB gets: Last card, Knight of Shadow, an Edur, probably Trull Sengar. This is obvious, given the fight at the First Throne later.

LifeSlayer, which we know is Icarium. Again, foreshadowing that encounter that ST thrusts him into.

Herald of High House Death (between QB and Kalam), well, one of them is going to die? Ideas on this one? Also, don't forget that Gethos, who visited Tene Baralta on the ship and was noticed by QB (a presence), once was Herald of Death. Pet theory: Kalam will become Herald after the events in Malaz City. Further note: it's an "inactive version."

Consort in Chains...well, he already took care of Poliel, but this could mean that his sister is next in line for that role... Chronologically this makes sense, since this card is AFTER Lifeslayer.

Kalam gets: Obelisk, "the sleeping goddess", does that mean Burn? So, perhaps he will be central to healing her. Fid says it's a reversed field for Kalam...does that mean the cards are in reverse order, or that Obelisk is reversed? What would THAT mean, anyway?

King of Shadows, After Herald Death. The prediction of his involvement in Malaz City, but of what specifically for Kalam?

The comment here about how he gets from Herald Death to Obelisk, via King of Shadows, indeed implies the cards are in reverse chronological order. So, he's got more to do...he's not gone from the story.

T'Amber gets: Throne, as the pivot card, shifting every which way... A clue to what possesses her? It's not the throne of the House of War, because Keneb gets that one.

Virgin of Death. I'm puzzled on this one. Wasn't that Sorry's card at one point? Hmm....

Bottle gets: Deathslayer, and he's out. That's most interesting! Deathslayer is the CG himself! Thoughts?

Apsalar gets: Assassin of Shadow, no surprises there!

Keneb gets: Lord of Wolves (War Throne), but then it's almost as if the card is for Grub based on what he says next.

Crown, Sceptre, and Orb: Grub's three friends living in a cave nearby. I'll get back to this one. It probably has to do with Grub's prophecy from earlier.

Spinner of Death, Duiker?

Queen of Dark, ?

Queen of Life, that's the Queen of Dreams...

King in Chains, Rhulad. Fid implies these outline Keneb's journey, probably for the rest of the books if I can guess. But as to what it all means...? Keneb's got the most interesting hand in this game.

Fiddler gets: Soldier of Life, just for him "alone," does this mean he lives on as all other Bburners die? Not sure what this means...

Priest of Life, "Hah! That's a good one." ...?

Tavore gets: House of War, Guardians of the Road/Dead, not sure exactly what they are but I think they're the Bburners... When the deck is revealed on 638-640, they don't describe that card fully, but Stormy does talk about the stonework on the bridge. So, I think Tavore is going to fully join up with the Bonehunters and Bridgeburners, which I guess we also know by the end.

Master of the Deck, well she must be a central player if she's going to hook up with him soon, being his sister aside...

So, it looks like these will be main players in the final battle with the CG, which isn't surprising, but Bottle? That much surprised me.

This got really long, but real quick, what I think Crown, Sceptre, and Orb are (Grub's friends)...the only reference from Grub I could find is "the big man with cut hands" who says "yes." I'm not sure who this is... There may be another quote, after they're on the ship, but I can't find it.

Thoughts?

-Aaron

#5 Battalion

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 07:54 PM

I think the big man with cut hands is Withal, but I might be wrong.

Also, I want to play snap with these cards. Even though there's only one of each.

Get to the chopper!

#6 Guest_aaronsan_*

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:51 PM

Battalion;163265 said:

I think the big man with cut hands is Withal, but I might be wrong.

Good point. I think you're right. There is evidence of this in the prologue to RG, too, right? I haven't read it, but would like to get my hands on it (how could I do that, BTW?)

So, is he the Crown, Sceptre, or Orb?

-Aaron

#7 Where is Dassem Ultor?

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 09:10 PM

It is indeed Withal. His hands are mentioned at various times. The question is which role he plays. I am leaning towards Scepter, as it is the most (descriptively) in line with his role as a sword-forger. Which leaves Orb and Crown; possibly dealing with his wife and the others in his group.

I always associate Dassem's daughter with the Virgin of Death, as well as Apsalar. And any tie to Dassem catches my attention, especially since we know where his daughter is.

I believe the inactive version of Death's Herald is not a reference to Gethol, but to the paralt poison that Pearl uses. And clearly, Kalam gets to the Obelisk (curious that Obelisk is now linked to the very same Azath house that Kellanved once utilized) with the help of Ammanas. I very much doubt Kalam would become Hood's new Herald, as he has always been associated with Shadow, although clearly in his role as a brutally effective assassin, the role might be offered.

Queen of Dark: Mother Dark?

Priest of Life: Through Fiddler's scorn, I have guessed in the past that he may be referring to Gesler/Braven Tooth.... A guess that for all intents and purposes should probably lie in the crazy theory thread. The only other person he could be laughing about is the man who makes his crossbows, which would imply that he is the Soldier, for the time being.

I too agree that Keneb gets the most interesting hand in the game, which gladdens me. Blistig, who I always liked, hasn't really had a lot of attention so far, but Keneb is clearly going to be important.

T'amber getting Throne has confused me. Shifting every which way; do her actions, in saving Tavore, ultimately come to redeem the shadow realm?

#8 paladin

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 09:49 PM

Quote

I very much doubt Kalam would become Hood's new Herald, as he has always been associated with Shadow, although clearly in his role as a brutally effective assassin, the role might be offered.

Unless Quick Ben forces him into it?

#9 Dolorous Menhir

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 11:00 PM

It's a good summary. I had a look through the search but couldn't find any threads devoted to this topic already. A few thoughts on what you suggest, though I don't have answers for them all.

aaronsan;163263 said:

Herald of High House Death (between QB and Kalam), well, one of them is going to die? Ideas on this one? Also, don't forget that Gethos, who visited Tene Baralta on the ship and was noticed by QB (a presence), once was Herald of Death. Pet theory: Kalam will become Herald after the events in Malaz City. Further note: it's an "inactive version."

Herald of Death is explained by Kalam's brush with death at the end. Actually QB has a brush with death too. "Inactive" because neither character died, I assume (no way Kalam is dead). Note also that Gethol is Herald of Chains as of BH, though you could still argue that as a past Herald of Death the inactive card refers to him.

The brothers are Gothos & Gethol by the way.

Quote

The comment here about how he gets from Herald Death to Obelisk, via King of Shadows, indeed implies the cards are in reverse chronological order. So, he's got more to do...he's not gone from the story.

Well you pretty much answer this one yourself. Kalam is near death (Herald), taken by Ammanas (the King of Shadows) to an Azath house (Obelisk). Simple.

Quote

T'Amber gets: Throne, as the pivot card, shifting every which way... A clue to what possesses her? It's not the throne of the House of War, because Keneb gets that one.

If you consider "throne" to mean a powerful pivotal person, then I would say that refers to the Eres'al as you suggest. She is pretty important after all.

Quote

Virgin of Death. I'm puzzled on this one. Wasn't that Sorry's card at one point? Hmm....

I think this card just means someone is a killer. Sorry was a good killer. It turns out that T'amber was too.

Quote

Bottle gets: Deathslayer, and he's out. That's most interesting! Deathslayer is the CG himself! Thoughts?

Pass.

Quote

Keneb gets: Lord of Wolves (War Throne), but then it's almost as if the card is for Grub based on what he says next.

Crown, Sceptre, and Orb: Grub's three friends living in a cave nearby. I'll get back to this one. It probably has to do with Grub's prophecy from earlier.

Don't know about this one. Crown referred to Darujhistan in GotM, but that was almost certainly a one-time reading association.

Quote

Spinner of Death, Duiker?

I think so, Imperial Historian as spinner of tales. Tales of the Chain of Dogs, tales of death.

Quote

Queen of Dark, ?

Mother Dark?

Queen of Life, that's the Queen of Dreams...

King in Chains, Rhulad. Fid implies these outline Keneb's journey, probably for the rest of the books if I can guess. But as to what it all means...? Keneb's got the most interesting hand in this game.

Don't know about these. Looks like Keneb is in for an interesting time.

Quote

Fiddler gets: Soldier of Life, just for him "alone," does this mean he lives of as all other Bburners die? Not sure what this means...

Priest of Life, "Hah! That's a good one." ...?

I reckon Fiddler is actually the Soldier of Life. That's certainly much more likely than Priest - I can't think of any good candidates of who this may refer to. Mallet?

#10 Gem Windcaster

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 11:34 PM

Dolorous Menhir;163332 said:

I reckon Fiddler is actually the Soldier of Life. That's certainly much more likely than Priest - I can't think of any good candidates of who this may refer to. Mallet?

Couldn't it refer to Fid's mysterious talent? And he's obviously
a sort of special carrier of the Bridgeburners song.
Hedge said something about Fid carrying them all to the end.
Whatever that means.

_ In the dark I play the night, like a tune vividly fright_
So light it blows, at lark it goes _
invisible indifferent sight_

#11 Guest_aaronsan_*

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 02:26 PM

Dolorous Menhir;163332 said:

It's a good summary.

Thanks! I was kicking myself last night for posting this before I finished my reread. I forgot that T'amber died, was possessed by an Eres'al, and that Kalam made it all the way to the DH thanks to ST. Duh!

Dolorous Menhir;163332 said:

I had a look through the search but couldn't find any threads devoted to this topic already. A few thoughts on what you suggest, though I don't have answers for them all.

Herald of Death is explained by Kalam's brush with death at the end. Actually QB has a brush with death too. "Inactive" because neither character died, I assume (no way Kalam is dead). Note also that Gethol is Herald of Chains as of BH, though you could still argue that as a past Herald of Death the inactive card refers to him.

The brothers are Gothos & Gethol by the way.

Thanks for the correction, though I did note that Gethol was previously the Herald of Death.

Dolorous Menhir;163332 said:

Well you pretty much answer this one yourself. Kalam is near death (Herald), taken by Ammanas (the King of Shadows) to an Azath house (Obelisk). Simple.

I'm not so sure that's the end of that one. I mean, he says "Sleeping Goddess" after he throws the Obelisk card, so I think there's more to it. Burn is the sleeping goddess, and the CG is the one making her sick.

So, I think Kalam has a key role to play there.

Dolorous Menhir;163332 said:

If you consider "throne" to mean a powerful pivotal person, then I would say that refers to the Eres'al as you suggest. She is pretty important after all.

I think this card just means someone is a killer. Sorry was a good killer. It turns out that T'amber was too.

Fair enough. I neglected to remember that she dies, and was possessed by the Eres'al. Her card-game-revealed mysteries are over.

I do agree with Where is Dassem Ultor that the actions today may help to restore the Shadow realm.

Dolorous Menhir;163332 said:

Don't know about this one. Crown referred to Darujhistan in GotM, but that was almost certainly a one-time reading association.

I"m thinking, as others have said, that Withal, his wife, and Traveller (Crust) are these three, because Grub dove off the ship to meet them as predicted. So, it's just a question of which is which. Or possibly Banaschar is one of these three...

Orb is usually female, right? So that would be the Tiste Andii (forget her name)?

This is probably impossible to predict right now.

Dolorous Menhir;163332 said:

I reckon Fiddler is actually the Soldier of Life. That's certainly much more likely than Priest - I can't think of any good candidates of who this may refer to. Mallet?

I don't think Mallet is a key player anymore. It's either Banaschar or Braven Tooth, but I don't think Braven Tooth will continue to be a key player.

-Aaron

#12 BridgeBurner

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:29 PM

aaronsan;163489 said:

I don't think Mallet is a key player anymore. It's either Banaschar or Braven Tooth, but I don't think Braven Tooth will continue to be a key player.

-Aaron

Braven Tooth is out of the picture. It was good to get to know him though, after all we heard about him from the Malazan soldiers.

Mallet's spirit is broken, after what happened to Whiskeyjack....

For some reason I think the role of Priest of Life might fit Gesler. I'd have to think about it more before coming with real arguments though...

The comment "Heh! That's a good one..." would certainly be in place if it were Gesler.

#13 Dolorous Menhir

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:39 PM

I think the Priest of Life should have some kind of healing ability though, which is why I suggested Mallet. The only other noted healer I could think of was Caladan Brood.

Gesler has no magical ability that I can think of.

#14 paladin

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:52 PM

but his resilience after passing through the fire seems to match some of fid's longevity since fid may be the soldier of life.. we also dont know, yet, the extent of the changes he had doing that

#15 Dolorous Menhir

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:59 PM

Passing through the fires of KLiosan was a step to ascendancy and gave him some immunity to fire. That's not the same as gaining priestly powers like healing.

#16 BridgeBurner

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:52 PM

Why should the Priest of Life necessarily be a healer?

After all the Queen in this house is the Queen of Dreams, and not Soliel. Fiddler, being Soldier in HH Life, would be out of place here as well. Mallet would be better suited as Soldier if it were all about healing, with Noto Boil as priest candidate.

Yet, Noto Boil doesn't seem to have the right mindset, while Gesler seems to have, considering the way he thinks about keeping his soldiers alive. His thoughts about Truth (the Marine) stand out there...

#17 Brys Beddict

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 08:42 PM

In regards to T'amber getting Virgin of Death, I think it's more specifically for the Eres'al in here. Virginity can be counted as innocence in a way, and there is no one character more innocent than the Eres. The Eres almost seems like a small child in most cases, like an untainted youth, and I'd peg that as innocent despite not being a virgin in the classic sense, since she kinda raped Trull.

That only clears the Virginity part of the card though. She may have the virgin/innocent Eres inside her, but for the most part, T'amber is still a professional soldier and knows how to kill people.

Just my two cents.

#18 Guest_aaronsan_*

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 01:35 PM

Brys Beddict;163588 said:

And Bottle...and Icarium...and... Face it, she's a ho!

Brys Beddict;163588 said:

That only clears the Virginity part of the card though. She may have the virgin/innocent Eres inside her, but for the most part, T'amber is still a professional soldier and knows how to kill people.

Just my two cents.

Much as Sorry was/is, perhaps T'amber actually is a virgin. Not to start a flame war but after all, she's a lesbian...could be she knew before she ever tried it with a man.

She certainly delivered death with the efficacy of Sorry/Apsalar, and I think that's probably all that card meant.

She's gone anyway...probably not coming back based on the actions of the Eres'al and Tavore, but who knows?

Cotillion doesn't think she's coming back, or he wouldn't have told Lostara that she's got to fill that role now.

-Aaron, firm believer that one should know what one is missing...

#19 Guest_dskinner_*

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 04:58 PM

This thread is full of win and awesome

#20 Where is Dassem Ultor?

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 07:33 PM

T'amber can't be a virgin in actuality, she was a concubine in the Queen of Dream's temple.

Also, aaronsan, I am almost positive that Cartheron Crust is not Traveller. Their descriptions don't match up; he may have been the one that ferried the people off of Drift Avalii (imagine that reunion), but he certainly does not hold Vengeance.