origin of the nerek?

Page 1 of 1

You cannot start a new topic
You cannot reply to this topic

origin of the nerek?

#1 Omras Ghum

Fist

Group: Malaz Regular
Posts: 212
Joined: 04-September 05

Posted 16 February 2007 - 04:41 PM

well i am currently rereading MT and i stumbled upon something... might be very obvious to some of you but i still would like reassurance about it...

when seren pedac and the others arrive at the edur camp and after mayen blesses the nerek seren and hull have a little conversation where hull tells about the creation-myth of the nerek:

he says the nerek believe that they were all were born by one mother, countless generations before. this mother had stolen fire and wandered through time. and in her wanderings she one day took a blessed seed with her and birthed a daughter... the mother of all nerek

now the first mother (she who wandered through time) is called in the nerek-legends by different names: eres, n'eres, eres'al

my question is whether the eres-woman who sort of raped trull sengar in HoC (took his seed) is this mother of the mother of the nerek which would make trull the father of a whole people...?

#2 Terez

High Analyst of TQB

Group: Team Quick Ben
Posts: 4,981
Joined: 17-January 07
Location:United States of North America
Interests:WWQBD?
WoT Fangirl, Rank Traitor

Posted 16 February 2007 - 06:08 PM

Chapter 24 said:

In the oldest, most fragmentary of texts, will be found obscure mention of the Eres'al, a name that seems to refer to those most ancient of spirits that are the essence of the physical world. There is, of course, no empirical means of determining whether the attribution of meaning - the power inherent in making symbols of the inanimate - was causative, in essence the creative force behind the Eres'al; or if some other mysterious power was involved, inviting the accretion of meaning and significance by intelligent forms of life at some later date.

Chapter 24 said:

In either case, what cannot be refuted is the rarely acknowledged but formidable power that exists like subterranean layers in notable features of the land; nor that such power is manifested with subtle yet profound efficacy, even so much as to twist the stride of gods - indeed, occasionally sufficient to bring them down with finalityâ€¦

Preface to the Compendium of Maps Kellarstellis of Li Heng

I don't know if that's helpful. It doesn't look very helpful. It seems sort of related to the myths of Dark and Light. And I don't know why it split up my quote like that.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.

#3 BridgeBurner

High Fist

Group: Malaz Regular
Posts: 417
Joined: 02-February 03
Location:The Netherlands

Posted 16 February 2007 - 07:11 PM

She is the same one. Trull is not the Father of a people, though. This is a special child, with a special purpose...

Obviously, she can travel through time. That's all I'm going to say, except that you will see her again in the Bonehunters...

HTH

#4 Omras Ghum

Fist

Group: Malaz Regular
Posts: 212
Joined: 04-September 05

Posted 16 February 2007 - 07:49 PM

okay, can't wait till it's out in german...

EDIT: But if you say she can travel through time as her mother can... she very well could also be the mother of the nerek... so trull being the (grand-)father of a people is not yet off my screen...

#5 BridgeBurner

High Fist

Group: Malaz Regular
Posts: 417
Joined: 02-February 03
Location:The Netherlands

Posted 16 February 2007 - 08:10 PM

Omras Ghum;160106 said:

The mother Eres can travel through time. As of the end of The Bonehunters, the child isn't born yet

#6 Dolorous Menhir

Group: Wiki Contributor
Posts: 4,550
Joined: 31-January 06

Posted 18 February 2007 - 11:25 PM

I think the Nerek are just the descendants of the Eres that remain closest to their heritage, even still worshipping the Eres'al herself. Remember that it's claimed the Eres were the first sentient race and all others are descended from them (though it's not clear if that included the non-human races).

Note the similarity of names also - nEREk, EREs.

And yes, the goddess of the Nerek and Trull's ladyfriend are one and the same - the Eres'al. I seem to remember L'oric had some visions of her too, in HoC? There was a scene when he saw a primitive being crouched in the grass, and then he saw its eyes and realised he was seeing the first human intelligence. Or maybe it was someone else who saw that.

#7 Guest_T'an Aros_*

Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 20 February 2007 - 05:11 PM

Dolorous Menhir;160538 said:

And yes, the goddess of the Nerek and Trull's ladyfriend are one and the same - the Eres'al. I seem to remember L'oric had some visions of her too, in HoC? There was a scene when he saw a primitive being crouched in the grass, and then he saw its eyes and realised he was seeing the first human intelligence. Or maybe it was someone else who saw that.

I don't remember the scene exactly, but yeah it was L'oric. He was in that place from the beginning of time or whatever, and he saw the Eres'al and that they were subservient to the Deragoth, before being rescued by a Draconic Osric (or whichever variant on the name you prefer to use). He does mention something about the first intelligence and about her being primordial, but have no clue as to where exactly.

EDIT: Onrack says the Eres were "the first to carry the spark of awareness" - not sure if this is relevant.

#8 Onos

Fist

Group: Malaz Regular
Posts: 263
Joined: 23-May 06
Location:Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:06 PM

Seems to be a one way deal with the Nerek worshipping the Eres, but the Eres not doing a whole lot in return for them. (IMO) Pretty impressive for the cult to have survived this long anywhere.

#9 Dolorous Menhir

Group: Wiki Contributor
Posts: 4,550
Joined: 31-January 06

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:36 PM

The Eres'al came back for the Nerek at the end of MT. That's why they regained their fighting spirit and decided to kill Hull.

#10 Guest_T'an Aros_*

Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:02 PM

That when they were protected from the sorcery that destroys the rest of the village?

EDIT: Or was it the dreams they were having?

#11 Dolorous Menhir

Group: Wiki Contributor
Posts: 4,550
Joined: 31-January 06

Posted 21 February 2007 - 11:27 PM

Mayen's blessing protected the Nerek in Trull's village.

#12 buddhacat

Fist

Group: Malaz Regular
Posts: 252
Joined: 05-March 05
Location:Silicon Valley

Posted 22 February 2007 - 09:54 PM

Dolorous Menhir;161450 said:

Mayen's blessing protected the Nerek in Trull's village.

My take is that Mayen's blessing sanctified the Nerek ground in the village, where their worship made possible the return of the Eres'al (somewhat like the return of K'rul after the blood spilled in the Belfry in GOTM.)

Buddhacat

#13 Imperial Historian

Master of the Deck

Group: Administrators
Posts: 7,882
Joined: 08-February 04

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:47 PM

That theory of yours has come up before, Hetan came up with it I think, but i can't find the original post...

Anyway the important factor was this the blessing from mayen on the nerek carried more weight than it should have, mayen's blessing as an edur should have had little or no effect on the nerek... but

"An edur blessing could do that? Sanctify the ground?
Maybe. I don't know. But there could be a binding. Of destinies depending on the purity of Mayen's bloodline, and all that awaits her in her life" (Mt, HC p191)

It's not much of a stretch to suggest that Mayen's blessing had such weight because she and her bloodlines linked to the Sengar family and hence, being linked to Trull, who as father of a child by eres (probably kettle), who has since travelled in time could be the ancestor to the nerek race, would have significant weight for the nerek and led to the reawakening of the eres.

Or it could just have something to do with the fact that her destiny was to be empress, which gave her blessings more weight, but I like the other theory more

#14 tiam

Ascendant

Group: Mott Irregulars
Posts: 3,948
Joined: 26-January 06

Posted 24 February 2007 - 04:40 PM

If her becoming empress could allow her to defend powerful sorcery then surely being emperor would allow rhulad to completely bless the village. I cant see a blessing from anyone other than a god protecting them. I feel that Mayens blessing attracted the attention of the Eres and she blessed them and protected them

#15 Dolorous Menhir

Group: Wiki Contributor
Posts: 4,550
Joined: 31-January 06

Posted 24 February 2007 - 04:58 PM

It seemed pretty clear that the blessing of Mayen as an Edur female was enough. I don't think it had much to do with her being Empress, but I could be wrong.

#16 Omras Ghum

Fist

Group: Malaz Regular
Posts: 212
Joined: 04-September 05

Posted 24 February 2007 - 09:51 PM

i got the impression that the nerek by being blessed by mayen got some self-respect (back) and in a way were restored to their being true nerek (worshipping the eres) and thus the eres protected them ...

another question: brys' corpse was taken by the guardian to maels realm - did i get that right? and brys lost two fingers in his fight with rhulad, one of those was found and taken by featherwitch and it is mentioned there and earlier in MT (when seren burns her hair to not have it used against her by some sorceror etc.) that such things are powerful tools for someone adept at magic to control (exert power over) the being the hair ot whatever else came from in the first place... so: does featherwitch have the means and the power to control brys? if so she could bring him back to life, could she?