[paladin]

i wasnt intending that gothos would have done it without being asked by mael, was more just making a statement/speculation of what happened

[SiriusL]

paladin;172228 said:

i wasnt intending that gothos would have done it without being asked by mael, was more just making a statement/speculation of what happened

So what do you think it was? I think I had it figured out once, but now I can't remember. :confused:

[paladin]

dunno.. i dont consider myself a scholar by anymeans.. i forget too much to be of any worth other than anecdotes

[mmdw45]

paladin;172098 said:

well, one thing is that the jaghuts magic(ice) seems to be a "preservation" type of magic.. easier to tell a an ice-mage to do what he knows than tell him to be a janitor. he also is a historian of sorts, so preservation of history could be involved there as well

Which is odd and kind of ironic, since Tellann (ash) is now a "preservation" type of magic as well.

-Maximilian

[ASAGO]

paladin;172098 said:

well, one thing is that the jaghuts magic(ice) seems to be a "preservation" type of magic.. easier to tell a an ice-mage to do what he knows than tell him to be a janitor. he also is a historian of sorts, so preservation of history could be involved there as well

Jaghut sorcery is just more than Ice it could be used in binding rituals, preserve the battle scene and the betrayel of scanbardi blood eye, but if you rember Raest in Gardens of the moon his sorcery was very destructive and that was without the finnest. I am pretty sure just like in all races there are high mages or high shamans or cedas. point being Jagut and jag alike are not just limited to "ICE"

[ASAGO]

SiriusL;172225 said:

@Paladin:

I got the distinct impression that Gothos was not planning on preserving anything, and didn't start that part of the ritual till Mael asked him. Mael put himself in Gothos's debt, which is interesting in itself, IMO. I wonder if we'll see the resolution of that.

Gothos is already in Maels debt and in the end of MT you will indeed make sence of what that is all about

[Silander]

Hmmm, well its pretty evident that a major war is on the way between the Gods and major powers. I've only read the teaser for RG but it seems Mael was about when some major characters were taken down. Sure he likes Tehol and seems to be neglecting his duties (as pointed out to him by the Guardian when it comes back to collect Brys' body), but will he escape having to choose a side? Will being an elder God be enough for him to be 'on his own side'. After the very end scene of MT we know he def ain't in the chained God's side!!!

[Aptorian]

Don't hate the Edur, hate the CG.

[flea]

Why not hate the Edur--they do have slaves.

[Flawed]

I think that when Bugg reacted and sent Theradas to the Deep he wasn't quite thinking straight. It was a raw emotion filled reaction to his mate being stomped on.

I think Bugg revived him mainly because he loves him and they are good friends. Tethol has the brains and can do the economy crushing thing on his own.

I don't think there is any use being made. He was just mightily peeved and could do something about it.

I personally would of summoned the biggest female Walrus that i could find that was in heat and locked Theredas up with it. See what happens.

Blubber Shudder

Oh! just noticed weve moved on from the origional post. Sorry! ( Said in suitable abashed tones )

[Aptorian]

flea;185279 said:

Why not hate the Edur--they do have slaves.

So does the Malazans... they just call it prison labour.

Having slaves isn't evil, it's called culture. It might not be a culture you approve of but that doesn't make it evil.

I like the Edur better than the Letherii, at least the Edur are a more pure culture without the twisted notions of superiority, debt or class the Letherii possesed. Hell, to a large degree I have more respect for the warrior culture of the Edur than I have of the western culture of today.

What the Edur are doing around the world of Wu is done on the order of their emperor who is being used by the CG. It is the CGs influence and power that has twisted the Edur.

[SiriusL]

ASAGO;178378 said:

Gothos is already in Maels debt and in the end of MT you will indeed make sence of what that is all about

Not sure I follow you here. At the beginning of MT, Mael asks Gothos to preserve everything, and says that he will be in Gothos's debt. But, to me at least, it's never really resolved. What did the preservation accomplish? Was that what was maintaining Holds instead of Houses, etc.?

And I didn't see anything to do with Gothos at the end of MT, unless you're saying the Jaghut Huntress helped Mael because of Gothos's debt. Interesting.

[Dark Mac]

Aptorian;185325 said:

What the Edur are doing around the world of Wu is done on the order of their emperor who is being used by the CG. It is the CGs influence and power that has twisted the Edur.

The Edur shouldn't have let Rhulad become their emperor in the first place.

Speaking of which, that was one of Erikson's worst scenes, IMO. Not believable at all, really.

[Aptorian]

I think the Edur culture, being a hunter gatherer/warrior society, to a certain extent follow leaders of strength or in some cases wisdom. The Warlock King was followed mostly because he held the chieftains sons as captives, that in it self would be a showing of power but also because of his ingenuity.

Rhulad is followed because he obviously is possesed by some great power and he promises to bring the Edur back to prior glory. I think this might be the true reason for the Edur to follow the emperor. He promises them what they think they miss, a time of legend and greatness. They, at least in the start, was sweped away in a sort of primitive surge of patriotism, I know that doesn't exist yet, but you get my drift.

I haven't read RG yet but I'm sure that by now the Edur have realised what they've begun but just don't know how to end the reign of Rhulad. Or they're simply misguided by lies and false proffesies.

On another note: I don't know who it was that negrepped me for the "Edur are good, slavery isn't evil" - post I made but my opinions of the Edur and slavery doesn't make me a bad person. It makes me open minded and very liberal in my wiew of politics and human culture. Whether or not slavery is a bad or good thing is in the eye of the beholder, ancient cultures didn't percieve slavery as anything but normal. That we can aford to look down upon such actions today is a comment on the rich culture and moral we sustain in the west... Not the culture of prior centuries.

Sorry about the derailing.

[flea]

I might be inclined to lecture you on the silliness of your version of moral relativism, but the fact that you haven't read RG works against you. Without revealing anything, there is a description of Edur slavery that proves how evil it is.

The Letheri practice a form of slavery called Indebtedness. I can't wait to see them go down too.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Aptorian;185580 said:

Whether or not slavery is a bad or good thing is in the eye of the beholder, ancient cultures didn't percieve slavery as anything but normal. That we can aford to look down upon such actions today is a comment on the rich culture and moral we sustain in the west... Not the culture of prior centuries.

Sorry about the derailing.

I see your point here, but don't really agree with the concept that just because something was accepted back then, it wasn't wrong. I see where you're coming from though.

[Aptorian]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;185690 said:

I see your point here, but don't really agree with the concept that just because something was accepted back then, it wasn't wrong. I see where you're coming from though.

Still derailing here, probably should be in the discussion forum... but.

I think my general concept, is...

Tyranny, slavery, democracy, Monarchy, some term I cant remember that means more people tyranny (Oglicharcy),... etc... That's not evil, It's what existed before what we have today.

I like preferences, I do not like that anything else than what is printed into our school books and our minds at a pre-school level is what is right. I Love the cencept of despots and tyrants, etc.

What's wrong with being born to rule.

OR being so clever you find a need to overwhelm a nation to do what's for the best.

Yeah, I know, I'm pushing the envelope... But, Democracy is nice, it's not the universal solution.

[Dark Mac]

Benevolent dictatorships are obviously ideal.

However, they are also very unlikely. Which is why democracy is the best system - it's the most likely to produce a good result.