[Gimli's love child]

Apologies if this has been discussed before but this has been annoying me for a while now:

About midway through MOI Itkovian brings the surviving Grey swords to the Barghast elders and tries to obtain Togg and Fanerday as the new grey swords patron, Destriant and Sheild Anvil positions are then given to two of the grey swords but not a Mortal Sword as 'he has been chosen already' or something along those lines which then turns out to be Anaster/Toc the younger.

But then we read TB and run into a whole new Togg and Fanerday warrior cult in which these postions have already been filled, and it seems to have been this way for some time. The Mortal Sword is also a woman.

So whats the story here?? can a God have multiple Mortal swords etc?? does Togg and Fanerday get two as they are two Gods?? is this an overlook??

All comments welcome

[GardenGnome]

Search is your friend. The general agreement is that there are two armies for the two wolf gods. The 3 positions are opposites of each other - one has male Mortal Sword, the other female etc.

[Waylander]

In Bonehunters Mortal Sword Krughava says this, "I am Krughava, Mortal Sword of the Grey Helms of the Perish, sworn to the Wolves of Winter."

Wolves, meaning both of them. Maybe they are fakes.

[Abyss]

There are two gods, so they get to double up, but in theory each MS/Destriant/SA is sworn to both, not just one.

It would be interesting to see what happened if only one of Togg or Fancytail was eliminated.

- Abyss, doubles down on 11.

[Bl1nder]

Aye, they've sworn to the "wolves of winter", since they cant very well only worship one of em, can they? So togg and fancytail (cheers abyss ) both have their private armies

[Abyss]

Technically, it would probably be more accurate to say that they have two armies between Togg and Fenderbender.

- Abyss, heel wolf, heel!.

[ASAGO]

fanderay and toggetha are they not both female names?

[Blend]

Uhm, no... It's pretty much said outright that Togg is a male and Fanderay is his sweet bucket of female love, and that they've been searching for each other for some time... It would be interesting to know which army belongs to which... Which Mortal Sword is Togg's, and which is Fanderay's, and why the other positions are filled with opposite gendered people... If there's a reason.

[Abyss]

I stick with both armies are both Gods' and the reversal in gender is symbolic/inspired.

- Abyss, could then call this a 'Fander-gender-bender' .

[Chavallas]

As I see it, Toc the Younger is Togg's MS. They've got quite a connection between them, haven't they? That would mean that Toc is leading Togg's army.

Of course I also believe Abyss might be right. I don't really see why the distinction between Togg and Fandaray each having a personal army or having two together.

[Kurt Montandon]

Chavallas;178527 said:

As I see it, Toc the Younger is Togg's MS. They've got quite a connection between them, haven't they? That would mean that Toc is leading Togg's army.

Of course I also believe Abyss might be right. I don't really see why the distinction between Togg and Fandaray each having a personal army or having two together.

Which now has me wondering if Oppon has a ... household. Mortal Sword, Shield Anvil etc. Envy and Spite do, for whatever reason, but we don't know enough about that to know if they have dual positions, or one for each of them.

But it does seem far too strictured for Oppon's style, so probably not. They seem to prefer circumstantial pawns.

[Dolorous Menhir]

kmmontandon;178538 said:

Which now has me wondering if Oppon has a ... household. Mortal Sword, Shield Anvil etc. Envy and Spite do, for whatever reason, but we don't know enough about that to know if they have dual positions, or one for each of them.

But it does seem far too strictured for Oppon's style, so probably not. They seem to prefer circumstantial pawns.

Spite & Envy aren't even gods, how would they have Mortal Swords & Shield Anvils?

[Abyss]

kmmontandon;178538 said:

Which now has me wondering if Oppon has a ... household. Mortal Sword, Shield Anvil etc. Envy and Spite do...

There's also an element of vulnerability in a god winding their power into mortals that way. Consider that just using Paran's sword apparently left Oponn vulnerable to Cotillion in GotM. And look what happened to Fener via a fallen High Priest who was only almost Destriant.

@kmmon': Not sure what you're ref'ing re Envy and Spite. They aren't gods and afaik, we've never seen a ref to them having invested mortal agents.

- Abyss, investment counselor.

[jared1221]

Now I don't know about the whole role reversal issue. But I am wondering where the enkar'al-possessed-Thelomen Toblakai fits in from HoC. It was a Thelomen Toblakai of pure blood who was possessed by a demon and then imprisoned beneath B'ridys. After Kalam stuck his knives in it, the blood poured into the stream and an enkar'al drank it, switching the soul of the enkar'al to the Toblakai body and vice versa.
Here's the quote that got me thinking:

Quote

Rage and terror. Unanswered, except by the promise of eternity.
Or so it would have remained.
Had the Beast Thrones stayed unoccupied.
Had not the reawakened wolf gods known an urgent need . . . for a champion.

Quote

Besides this champion would taste blood . . . and soon.

[Dolorous Menhir]

As the quotes say, it's the Champion of the Beast Hold. I look forward to a future appearance in which it squawks and flaps its arms in an attempt to fly away.

[Abyss]

Technically, wouldn't he be running around on all fours trying to flap his shoulders?

Do you suppose he falls off the couch when he tries to lick himself?

Plus, no females left on the 7C continent.... that is going to be one HORNY champion.

- Abyss, also looks fwd to seeing that character again, but will try not to fixate on that image.

[jared1221]

Ah, so you think it's the some position from High House of War that it's going to fill. So Togg and Fanderay each have an army (both with mortal sword, destriant and shield anvil) and as the Lords of War they also have some sort of command over that House. Wouldn't that make them a bit overpowered? I seem to remembered Quick Ben talking about how mortal sword and etc, were older forms of knight and etc.
What card would that TTT be then, the only spots open are Soldier and Army since Fiddler doesn't mention any other cards in his deck.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Why bring up the House of War? We knew nothing of it when the Champion appeared in HoC, and there's been nothing about the enkaral TTT since that I can remember. He's the Champion of the Beast Hold, and that's all we know.

[jared1221]

I brought the House of War into it because I didn't think of the Beast Hold.
But I didn't think of it because it's not directly mentioned. The Beast Thrones do sound like it, but if you look it up in the back of MT, you'll find the Bone Perch in the Beast Hold and no mention of Beast Thrones anywhere. And since Togg and Fanderay are the Lords of War of High House War, it's not such a bad guess that a champion chosen by them which isn't named one of their mortal swords, would be of that House.

[Trotts]

I'm very excited to see the enka'ral TTT in action. Thats gonna rock!