[Onrack the breakable]

That was in Midnight Tides. Up to MOI, Mael wasn't even mentioned more than once or twice if that.

I don't see Tehol as having any obvious direct effect. Of course, he may pull the rug out from under the Edurs feet at the precise worse moment. Something which may be quite amusing depending on how its done. During the actual fighting, Tehol will probably be on his roof sleeping thru it all. Haha!

[Dolorous Menhir]

The reasoning goes like this Onrack. Theradas Buhn's body was found in MoI by Quick Ben and the Host. This means that Mael's outburst occured before the body turned up. So it occured at some point in MoI, if we assume that Buhn was in Mael's realm for a brief time (it doesn't take long to get crushed to death).

Which is why people might have an inkling of who or where he is. Of course the roar was not mentioned by any character in MoI, but SE can get around that.

[Abyss]

From what we see of Withal in MT, at a minimum Mael's worship still includes the Mekros. Throw in the Jhistal before Kellanved wiped them out, plus, sideways or otherwise, every sailor, fisherman and merchant, and who knows what else is out there (the sea is a pretty big place) and he's got a lot of potential for woshippers.

It seems pretty clear that Elder Gods have the potential to be VERY powerful when they are in their 'prime', so to speak - see RG prologue. And it looks like unlike K'rul, whose worship faded until he left the world, returned almost by accident and is basically restricted to behind the scenes manipulation, or Nighchill/SoCN, who was physically killed be a 'mere' demon summonded by a human High Mage, it doesn't seem that Mael ever totally dropped off the map.


- Abyss, thinks Togg and Fanderlay are Elder Dogs.

[ASAGO]

I believe the elder gods especially Mael have alot more power than SE lets on, That war of the gods might be between the elder gods and the newley assended (just a thaught) on that same note alliances are being formed between both elder and newly assended. I get the hint that the elders have alot of power raw power (holds) It might be a battle for the warrens more than a battle for the thrones (another thaught). I really liked the crimson guard and I was glad to see at least some return to the story in MT The Avowed are a mystery to me, I mean Prince Kazz lost his fight against the ruler in there home town. I wonder how many Avowed are out there and I wonder why they lost when they have so much power. Think of who they were defeated by? Just my thaught of the day

[Onrack the breakable]

Good point DM. I meant in terms of the books. (I almost always read them in the sequence they're published) Up to MOI Mael was only mentioned once or twice. And we don't even see Theradas Buhn until MT. It may even be Theradas Buhn, but we have no inkling it may possible be him until Midnight Tides. Up til then, Buhn is just an Edur corpse, and Mael is just a curse word sometimes used by fisherfolk and almost no one else. The actual timeline is so confused, the less said the better.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Mallick Rel is around from the start of Deadhouse Gates, so that's a definite important presence for Mael in the early books. No mentions in GotM spring to mind, but it's been too long since I read that one now.

[Abyss]

It's interesting that if we link Mallick Rel's role in the Chain of Dogs in DG to Mael's conflict with the CG in MT, then it's possible the CG was in fact responsible for how Coltaine and co ended up.

I don't think we've actually seen Rel directly linked with the CG, tho'. Just my pet theory that the whole Rel/Dom thing is part of the CG's strike at the Malazan Empire, and he's using one of Mael's (ex?) priests to do it.

Iirc, the glossary draws an analogy between Jhistal and Destriant, altho' Duiker just described Jhistal as a particularly bloody-minded cult. If the Destriant thing is closer to the truth, and we know from MoI and HoC that a Destriant can be a point of vulnerability for a god, then i wonder whether Mael didn't really succeed in kicking the CG's butt post MT.

In fact, maybe all of MT was just the CG's tricky way to lure Mael close enough...

- Abyss, and now my head hurts.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Close enough to seize control over the Jhistal? The impression I take away is that Mallick Rel is an independent operator - if he's someone's minion he is on a very long leash, and the CG doesn't seem to work like that. With the exception of Karsa, a special case if ever I saw one.

Maybe that's why Kellanved had the Jhistal tribe eradicated - he knew they represented some base of power for an opposing god. Is that too far-fetched? I can't even remember if it was the Malazans or someone else who

edit: maybe I should finish that sentence.

I can't even remember if it was the Malazans or someone else who ethnic cleansed the Jhistal.

[Monoch Ochem]

It was Kellanved Dolorous. Tavore said so during the discusion with Laseen, Rel, Dom, Kalam and T'Amber.

But wasn't it argued on the Forum that the Tiste Edur body wasn't the one Mael 'sent home'? I think it was to do with unworkable timelines or something....do you remember Abyss? I don't recall how the discussion resolved itself (there was so much belligerence floating around at the time, ach!)... but I too thought it was Buhn but some intellectuals had deciphered otherwise.

Anyway, Mael's now in the fray. He went to take on the CG directly. I want the end of MT to be expanded on...what happened? Clearly Withal and Sandy made it to shore in Malaz City and are now with Tavore. So what happened to old Boiled Crab?

As for who heard him, I doubt he's that worried anymore. If D'rek can do some housecleaning, so can Mael. I'd like to see what's in store for Rel. Interesting....Dom and Rel might cancel each other out or 1 eliminate the other. Dom CERTAINLY doesn't like sorcery and doesn't trust Rel.

[BridgeBurner]

I may be wrong here since I'm going from memory, and it's been awhile since I had time to really read.

In tBH Paran found a sacrifice site in what is generally accepted as being the Nascent. I seem to recall something about a big group of sea faring people heading off from there. Could these sacrifices (The Trygalle woman and the Orr woman) have been made in order to appease Mael?

Also, but I am stretching here, is it humanoid bloodshed on holy ground in order to appease an Elder God that makes this God stronger, or is this different depending on the Elder god's nature?

I mean, we know about K'rul getting active after the bloodshed in his old temple in Darujhistan, but where does it say that bloodshed in order to appease Mael would have to be humanoid blood, except where Mael cults among humans are mentioned?

If Mael's strength would be sustained by the general killing among sea creatures only, I could picture him getting bored with the human cults devoted to him and therefore ignore them, since he doesn't need them anyway. Which would mean that he can easily afford to pose as a manservant, without losing strength...

Shoot me down, now

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't think it's clear cut that the sacrifice site was in the Nascent. Paran travelled there with the aid of Ganath, and the place was referred to as an old Jaghut "warren of death." Of course the statues that we previously saw in the Nascent were there, but I think they're operating on some kind of "presence in multiple warrens" system, like the stuff that appears in Shadow.

The Deragoth statues in BH were different, they were all "energised" - the ones in HoC were not. I think the BH ones are originals, and the HoC ones were "shadows" - note that the Nascent is believed to be a fragment of KE, a warren of shadow. Thus only the two statues that had been further "energised" by the souls of Doan & Ganrod appeared "energised" in the Nascent.

Am I making sense?

[Dragnipurake]

"Am I making sense?"

this feels like a very reasonable explanation. esp since, after all the build up of the death realm before hood, it would be a let down if it turns out to be the nascent. the statues appearing in the nascent because it is a fragment of emurlahn has similarities to various other features appearing in the shadow realm.

[BridgeBurner]

Even if it weren't in the Nascent, I'm still wondering about the rest.

[buddhacat]

BridgeBurner;151533 said:

Even if it weren't in the Nascent, I'm still wondering about the rest.

It was the Nascent. The Bridge that Paran & Co cross has a gate at its end (beyond the carriage destroyed by the Hounds of Shadow). On the other side of this gate is where they enter the Nascent. Thus, they only pass through the realm under Hood's realm. Apparently Paran needed the ghost to show him the bridge, and the Hounds to blaze the trail into the Nascent.