[ASAGO]

I know bottle has something to do with the Eres'al. So does that mean that he has Nerek blood in him or has she just taken some special interest in him? I am not quite finished with Bonehunters i have a little left so mabey my question will be answered, but i was wondering what all you guys think?

[Dolorous Menhir]

He's not from Lether...so no, he's not got Nerek blood.

All intelligent life is descended from the Eres, so you don't need to be Nerek to be related to the Eres'al.

[tiam]

i actually thought she chose him because he used earth magic. Also anyone reckon bottles Grandmother is Riggalai, the woman from GOTM

[Dolorous Menhir]

I thought Bottle was Dal Honese. Riggalai was from Apsalar's native land, the name of which currently escapes me but was certainly not Dal Hon.

[Urko Crust]

itko kan

[ASAGO]

ok let me clarify I know where bottle is from but the eres al is the spirit goddess of the Nerek and she is definetly with him or is using him i dont know mabey apart of an alliance but i wasnt sure if him or his grandmother have something to do with the Nerek tribe, I am just wondering why she has chose him. But like i said I think it is an alliance of some sort yet to be revieled to me

[Urko Crust]

i dont think that there is any connection with the Nerek from bottle or his grandmother mentioned. the only reason that the eres is known as the god of the Nerek is that they are the very few people that remember her.
i think she chose bottle because he was aware of her presence and she could work through him less directly than with T'amber

[buddhacat]

Dolorous Menhir;145824 said:

All intelligent life is descended from the Eres, ...

All Imass and human life is descended from Eres.

[Dolorous Menhir]

It's pretty clearly stated at one point that the Eres were the first intelligent race. Outside races like the Tiste & the KCCM are grey areas, but I think all the "native" races are supposed to be Eres-descendents.

I include the Imass, humans, Jaghut and even the FA & TTT under that umbrella.

[Onrack the breakable]

Bottle uses Thyr (fire warren?) at one point and mostly uses earth/spirit magics besides playing with meanas. The warrens of light, dark, and shadow are mentioned quite alot as a trimvirate and it seems those are Tiste warrens although accessible to humans as well. Back in HOC L'oric at one point starts to warn Heboric about tiste meddling in human affairs. Makes me wonder if Bottle is maybe a tiste spy. I dunno, just don't trust him for some reason. Perhaps there are alot more tiste factions really involved in human affairs for some reason, maybe because what the CG is doing or maybe just because of their eternal war.

In personality, I would have to say Bottle most closely resembles Osric which is odd since Osric is Tiste Liosan. But that could be explained by his childhood experience with his monkey twin recalled when he has the godbringer dream. Which would suggest he is actual human and not a tiste in disguise, but would not really rule out his being a tiste spy. He seems the type of person that would feel sorrow at the death of a lizard, snake, rat, or spider but if a human dies, he's like, "so what, just don't spill blood on me".

[buddhacat]

Dolorous Menhir;146024 said:

It's pretty clearly stated at one point that the Eres were the first intelligent race. Outside races like the Tiste & the KCCM are grey areas, but I think all the "native" races are supposed to be Eres-descendents.

I include the Imass, humans, Jaghut and even the FA & TTT under that umbrella.

I don't think so. The Jaghut and FA are founding races (based on the RG prologue, it seems that the FA were Kilmandaros's children.) The Deragoth who domesticated the Eres are also a different race. The Deragoth, Jaghut, KCCM, FA, Tistes, and Eres were all contemporaneous (more or less), with the Eres at the bottom of the pecking order. There's just no way I see that the FA and Jaghut could have evolved from the Eres. Not sure about the TTT.

[Dolorous Menhir]

That makes sense. I'm wavering on the Eres as the foundation of all life now. The Deragoth are a clear exception - which leads me to think that maybe he meant "the first humanoid intelligent life" or something along those lines when the author stated the primacy of the Eres.

And then you have to ask, are the FA and the Jaghut included in this "humanoid" life?

[Onrack the breakable]

SE is really good at writing from the perspective of the person in question. One of the best I've ever seen but that does cause alot of inconsistencys. Consider that from a human viewpoint the Eres is the foundation of all life, while from the viewpoint of FA, Jaghut, KCCM, Tiste, etc Eres is just an ascended ape that causes trouble and smells bad.

The question of "humanoid" is rather murky especially considering that humans and chimps share 99% the same genetic material but look so different (with a few notable exceptions), while fantasy and Star Dreck type aliens look like humans wearing funny, bizarre makeup but have how much genetic similarity? Don't expect science FICTION and FANTASY to have much to do with logic or reality. Logic is just a word the pointy eared things misuse along with spewing out things that sound like science and math. To someone that doesn't have a clue about either.

Why is Eres constantly yanking on Bottles cork? Probably suggests she knows hes not kosher and is just yanking his chain. Or shes wondering "what's in the bottle?" Haha.

What about the spirit behind the Eres as the foundation of most all life? Remember back in MT, Menandore and Dapple are talking with Osric about their mother Tiam? Oddly, she seems to act alot like Eres, or like Mother Dark for the Tiste Ande, and what about the demoness Apt who was once a demonlords favorite concubine? Maybe its just SE reusing material or maybe its intentional. It does seem that each race has its own "Mother"/whore type thing with the possible exceptions of FA and KCCM. Eres may have dabbled some with Jaghut or maybe not. Who was Icariums mother? Being able to breed with humans does not mean much in fantasy where magic could easily do the impossible/improbable. And we haven't heard the creation myths of the Jaghut, Thelomen Toblaki, and probably others too. So, the idea of a "mother life" spirit does seem to exist for most if not all humanoid races whether they are genetically related to humans or not.

[rlfcl]

bottle is from jakatakan (ie malaz island) is he not

the eres'al is, as far as i have ever been able to tell, the ancestor of all that is human/imass. she's the lucy of the malazan world.

[Dolorous Menhir]

ur-lord;150767 said:

methinks Bottle is the son of the Emperor Kellanved...

BH, p. 882: If you would fear, fear for your own child (Tayschrenn to Kellanved)

HoC, p. 632: 'And your father? What was he?' 'Don't know. There were rumours...' He ducked his head, clearly uncomfortable.' (Exchange between Strings and Bottle)

I haven't gotten to link to this for a while:

http://www.malazanem...read.php?t=5330

As for the second quote - could be anyone.