[Illuyankas]

Let's not even get into the plot.

Dear god, the plot...

[mxlm]

[Aptorian]

I'm currently reading through 90s Uncanny X-men and X-men (Legacy) and on a re-read it has suddenly struck me that Gambit really is a bum.

A dirty haired, unwashed, unshaven douchbag always dressed in a pink tanktop. wearing gloves and a headband and chain smoking cigarettes. I actually cannot remember seeing him without a cigarette. He's sort of a mock frenchmen, with his new orleans personality and romancing the ladies, and of course the cigarette smoking. Why did anyone in 90s find this character cool?

God I hope he gets kniffed sooner or later, but I am sure the character has survived well into the 00s.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 21 July 2009 - 07:33 PM

[stone monkey]

Because it was the 90s and the world went a little strange. The unaccountable popularity Rob Liefeld enjoyed at the time is proof enough of that.

[Aptorian]

Similarly, I do not understand the Jubilee character at all.

She wears loud clothing and accessories and she can make sparks and lightshows. And she is 15 years old. How the hell does she fit on the X-mens team?

Shadowcat/Sprite/Kitty Pride I could sort of understand, because she was a computer/science wizz, had a pet mini dragon bodyguard and she could phase herself out of trouble.

But Jubilee is just a bratt that hangs out with Wolverine once in a while. And even that she can't do better than Kitty Pryde.

That girls needs to have her throat ripped out by Sabretooth or at least be moved to X-force or New Mutants.

[Illuyankas]

She's been depowered after M-Day, incidentally. So even more worthless now, and yes I have heard she's in New Warriors and no, it's still crap.

Wolverine's latest little girl sidekick is much cooler, though - Armour (to hell with Yank spelling) whom I know mostly from Astonishing X-Men, and also from the What If? Ghost Boxes where she beats Logan unconscious and cooks him over a fire.

[stone monkey]

X-Men writers just can't seem to resist teaming Wolverine up with a young girl. Armour (or XGirlA or whatever she'll eventually be called) is just the latest in the line. I know it's all about the juxtaposition; the gruff and worldly-wise killer with an innocent, and allowing his tender side to show... But it seems to me almost bordering on turning him into Marvel's version of Pedobear, but with adamantium claws...

That Ghost Boxes story was quite seriously depressing btw, and the rest of them weren't exactly a giggle. Although the last issue of the main Astonishing X-Men story was no laugh riot either. I'm not sure that would have been my take on Forge (who, concept wise, has always been one of my favourite X-Men. If I was going to have a mutant ability, I think I'd want his...) and his relationship with Storm, but it did make a certain amount of sense.

ps Remember that Kitty Pryde, as of the Wolverine/Kitty Pryde miniseries of, I think, 1990 or 91, is also a ninja... And no, I'm not kidding...

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 21 July 2009 - 10:11 PM

[Illuyankas]

Well, that whole business with Storm is all Black Panther's fault. Fuck Black Panther. Fuck him and his "Wakanda developed technology to defeat firearms centuries ago" isolationist bullshit and fuck the 'two black characters must obviously fall in love regardless of personality traits or backstory- oh, and retcon said backstory so that she was saved by him when they met as teenagers instead of her saving him, to make it easier to explain why one of the oldest and most prominent leaders of the X-Men lost all will of her own and is now some random asshole's sidekick in Africa' fuckery that shithole writer just HAD to add in. At least she had her own personality in Astonishing.

[RodeoRanch]

Blackest Night is pretty sweet so far. Granted, I don't know most of the backstory stuff but it's still interesting to me.

[mxlm]

So in the past couple weeks I've read seventy-seven issues of Witchblade. It's pretty bad. But I'm not stopping until I'm done!

[Aptorian]

stone monkey, on Jul 22 2009, 12:06 AM, said:

X-Men writers just can't seem to resist teaming Wolverine up with a young girl. Armour (or XGirlA or whatever she'll eventually be called) is just the latest in the line. I know it's all about the juxtaposition; the gruff and worldly-wise killer with an innocent, and allowing his tender side to show... But it seems to me almost bordering on turning him into Marvel's version of Pedobear, but with adamantium claws...

I was thinking the exact same thing. Back in the seventies I could understand it, because the seventies also had batman and robins pedophile adventures, but in the 90s and 00s... really? I think it is more a case of every new writer having a new take on wolverine. One run he's practically an animal, barely in control of himself, the next he is a wise samurai who fights with honor but doesn't do murder, then he's a crazy barhopping killer who will cut your head off if you serve him warm beer.

I think the most suitable one he's had is X-23, all though I don't particularly liked that character before I read the new X-force run. At least she makes sense as a mirror of Wolverine.

stone monkey, on Jul 22 2009, 12:06 AM, said:

That Ghost Boxes story was quite seriously depressing btw, and the rest of them weren't exactly a giggle. Although the last issue of the main Astonishing X-Men story was no laugh riot either. I'm not sure that would have been my take on Forge (who, concept wise, has always been one of my favourite X-Men. If I was going to have a mutant ability, I think I'd want his...) and his relationship with Storm, but it did make a certain amount of sense.

I've never been very fond of Forge, just because I find his skills way, way under utilised. I mean his power is invention, being able to understand any technology and improve upon it or in other cases just make shit up, like building an MRE out of twigs, leaves and some coins he had in his pocket. But I've never seen any artist depict Forge having any kind of telekineses or material altering abilities, so basically all the shit we see him flicking together (like a new Black bird in a matter of days) he's supposedly building with plain normal human hands and fingers. That's just not right to me.

And if he is that clever and has that potential, what the fuck is he doing in the X-men's basement, or Excaliburs, or what ever? The guy should be out there bringing the marvel world into the year 3000. Why hasn't he built machine to cure all diseases, genetic disorders, cured death, given mankind spacetravel, teleportation machine, why hasn't he made himself into a god!?? I mean, he can invent ANYTHING?!

Still, not having read any of Astonishing X-men yet, I am looking forward to reading the Ghostbox story. I skimmed some pages with him going mental and building some giant killer mutant robots... which is just damn awesome.

stone monkey, on Jul 22 2009, 12:06 AM, said:

ps Remember that Kitty Pryde, as of the Wolverine/Kitty Pryde miniseries of, I think, 1990 or 91, is also a ninja... And no, I'm not kidding...

I was going to say they were from the 70s, but I just checked. They're from 1984, the artwork is just so attrocious that I thought they were from the 70s...

They are not at the top of my to read list.

Illuyankas, on Jul 22 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

Well, that whole business with Storm is all Black Panther's fault. Fuck Black Panther. Fuck him and his "Wakanda developed technology to defeat firearms centuries ago" isolationist bullshit and fuck the 'two black characters must obviously fall in love regardless of personality traits or backstory- oh, and retcon said backstory so that she was saved by him when they met as teenagers instead of her saving him, to make it easier to explain why one of the oldest and most prominent leaders of the X-Men lost all will of her own and is now some random asshole's sidekick in Africa' fuckery that shithole writer just HAD to add in. At least she had her own personality in Astonishing.

I always loved it when they split Forge and Storm up, so that she could have her romantic fling with the other black character in X-men, whom they added because the black kids parents were whining.

mxlm, on Jul 22 2009, 01:19 AM, said:

So in the past couple weeks I've read seventy-seven issues of Witchblade. It's pretty bad. But I'm not stopping until I'm done!

Bad? You mean hot, right? And Awesome? I rememember when they came out, the artwork was amazing and the story was, at least, somewhat different. Just like Spawn and the Darkness.

I've got them lying in my to read folder as well. I'll probably get around to reading them again in a couple of YEARS!

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 22 July 2009 - 03:27 AM

[mxlm]

Aptorian, on Jul 21 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

Bad? You mean hot, right? And Awesome? I rememember when they came out, the artwork was amazing and the story was, at least, somewhat different. Just like Spawn and the Darkness.

Hot and awesome. Those are totally the words I was looking for, thanks!

Actually, I read an absurd amount of Witchblade today, and it became competent, possibly somewhat above average, when Ron Marz took over the writing duties. I'm not sure I can cope with that. I mean, when Sara would go visit her sort-of-but-not-quite niece Lisa and we'd get stuff about how close they were and how Sara looks after Lisa and so on and then we wouldn't see or hear of Lisa for two or three years of real time--that sort of thing was central to the Witchblade experience. How will I enjoy the title if that sort of sheer laziness is done away with?

Speaking of sheer laziness, I've also read the first forty-five issues of Dynamite's Red Sonja. The first thirty issues or so were substantially better than I expected, which means they were mostly competent (though as the series progressed under Oeming the writing and editing became lazier and lazier. Basic grammatical errors, basic continuity errors, that sort of thing). Once Brian Reed took over and Red Sonja was

Spoiler

reborn

the series seemed to become, like, actually pretty good. I think I'll have to plunk down cash to get the trades collecting Reed's stuff at some point. Dammit.

Anyway, the series had lots of pleasing dismemberment, and I realized I have read very, very few fantasy comics. Artesia was and is fucking awesome (epic fantasy. In comics. Maybe not on the Martin/Bakker/Erikson level, but still pretty great), but aside from that, I've got nothing. I presume Busiek's Conan series is worthwhile, so I'll look into that, but otherwise I'm drawing a blank. Suggestions, anyone?

[Illuyankas]

There's a manga version of Witchblade, who in every single picture I've seen of it is drawn with a sharp pointy blade coming out of her vagina. That's really all I have to say about Witchblade, besides the TV series sucking.

[Grimjust Bearegular]

stone monkey, on Jul 21 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

X-Men writers just can't seem to resist teaming Wolverine up with a young girl. Armour (or XGirlA or whatever she'll eventually be called) is just the latest in the line. I know it's all about the juxtaposition; the gruff and worldly-wise killer with an innocent, and allowing his tender side to show... But it seems to me almost bordering on turning him into Marvel's version of Pedobear, but with adamantium claws...

That Ghost Boxes story was quite seriously depressing btw, and the rest of them weren't exactly a giggle. Although the last issue of the main Astonishing X-Men story was no laugh riot either. I'm not sure that would have been my take on Forge (who, concept wise, has always been one of my favourite X-Men. If I was going to have a mutant ability, I think I'd want his...) and his relationship with Storm, but it did make a certain amount of sense.

ps Remember that Kitty Pryde, as of the Wolverine/Kitty Pryde miniseries of, I think, 1990 or 91, is also a ninja... And no, I'm not kidding...

That post was simply hilarious. Shouldn't read stuff like this at work...

[Illuyankas]

Good news for Stone Monkey, this



is out in October.

[polishgenius]

*wets self with excitement*

Well, it'll be a while longer before the trade comes out, but still.

[Aptorian]

I just read a comic about some kind of military cyborg fighting a giant monster in an arena. The monster seemed to win when it pounded the cyborg uncouncious with it's erection.

Japanese comics are strange.

[stone monkey]

Saw that on Warren Ellis' site. He says the release date's looking to be sometime in October. Can't wait, I've only been buying the bloody things for a decade or so after all...

And I thought the release schedule for issues of All Star Superman was slow...

[Abyss]

Aptorian, on Jun 29 2009, 04:43 PM, said:

... become properly fucked up a la Daredevils first true love, Karen Page. Who they turned into a crazy heroin addict, hooking for dope and eventually selling Murdocks identity for a fix. I believe they off'd her in true "fuck you disney"-style... AIDS, the ultimate comic book death.
...

I thought Bullseye killed her, but it's been a while since i read Born Again.

Aptorian, on Jun 29 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

Abyss, on Jun 29 2009, 10:24 PM, said:

Oh, and APT: track down the complete 12 ish run of GLOBAL FREQUENCY. It's brilliant good fun and even the weaker issues are more readable than a lot of the stuff you're grabbing.

- Abyss, ...also watches what's happening over in Batman with interest ...

I am downloading it as we... uhm... I mean, I have my people looking into wholeheartedly honest and completely legit channels of acquiring said articles. ...

You will thank us.

I actually bought this in floppy long after i abandoned the medium just to give Ellis my dollars for trying a different concept in comic storytelling.

Aptorian, on Jun 29 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

About continuity.

I'm currently some 1/3 through the whole Uncanny X-men run (supplementing with X-factor), currently I am at the point where the X-men are fighting Sinister and the Marauders, Madeline Pryor turns into the Goblin queen, Genosha is emerging, etc. And the amount of story I've gone through and the change I've witnessed from the 60s up into the end of the 80s is just amazing. It's easily manageable to understand all the plots and everything fits pretty sweetly together over the course of some 20 years of history. Granted a part of this success is because of Chris Claremont but it is still pretty damn impressive story telling.

On a sidenote, X-factor having never been published and large chunks of story being ignored in danish X-men, may I just say that I squealed like a little girl when I finally read the original stories about Sinister and Apocalypse.

I actually think everything from about where you are (circa MUTANT MASSACRE, or back to the first TRIAL OF MAGNETO) up to AGE OF APOCALYPSE are pure comic gold. Things sort of fell apart after that and they've been trying to resurrect the corpse ever since.

stone monkey, on Jun 29 2009, 05:42 PM, said:

Abyss' Global Frequency recommendation is seconded here and then some. Again, I have the floppies; but it is available as two TPBs. It's joyous stuff. Brilliant sf ideas carried off with the usual Ellis aplomb.

The issue "Superviolence" is my favourite of the run. It's absolutely fucking mental. It just consists of two badass dudes kicking the everliving shit out of each other for 28 pages; both of them subscribe to some weird biofeedback technique that makes them superhumanly tough... and that's it... There is other plot stuff in there, but it really doesn't matter...

Someone somewhere described that issue as 'fight pr0n'. The first time i read it, i thought it was crap. Then i read it again and actually studied the panels abit and decided it may be the most fucked up non-japanese manga tentacle penis rape pron comic ever. In a good way.

polishgenius, on Jun 30 2009, 07:00 AM, said:

Global Frequency is a masterclass in taut storytelling - there isn't a wasted word or panel. It's probably the leanest comic I've ever read.

The parkour one always sticks in my head.

LOVED the parkour one. The cyborg hunt and the international signal one were also great fun. While the 'Aleph-stands-alone' one wasn't as good as it could have been i still got a kick out of it.

Still pissed the show got axed post-pilot.

Aptorian, on Jul 21 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

I'm currently reading through 90s Uncanny X-men and X-men (Legacy) and on a re-read it has suddenly struck me that Gambit really is a bum.

A dirty haired, unwashed, unshaven douchbag always dressed in a pink tanktop. wearing gloves and a headband and chain smoking cigarettes. I actually cannot remember seeing him without a cigarette. He's sort of a mock frenchmen, with his new orleans personality and romancing the ladies, and of course the cigarette smoking. Why did anyone in 90s find this character cool?

God I hope he gets kniffed sooner or later, but I am sure the character has survived well into the 00s.

When he was first intro'd, Gambit was the kewlest thing ever. He was 90s kewl in bad tights and a trenchcoat. He beat up Wolverine and Gladiator in his first few appearances. He took a knife to the leg so he could use it to pick his handcuffs later. He had sex with most of the X-men, of both genders. Ok, he probably didn't but they implied it! Then the character was beaten to death byway of guest appearances, atrocious writing, a horrid take on a cajun accent and so on, along with most of the X-men.

Aptorian, on Jul 21 2009, 03:47 PM, said:

Similarly, I do not understand the Jubilee character at all.
...

They were trying to recapture the Kitty Pryde/Wolverine dynamic (and mostly failing, tho she had her moments).

stone monkey, on Jul 21 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

X-Men writers just can't seem to resist teaming Wolverine up with a young girl. ...ps Remember that Kitty Pryde, as of the Wolverine/Kitty Pryde miniseries of, I think, 1990 or 91, is also a ninja... And no, I'm not kidding...

Actually, she BECAME a ninja in the KITTY AND WOLVERINE series when Wolvie's old sensei possessed her, but realizing this made her more cool, Claremont kept that element to the character. Then she grew up, became competent, and starting having wild crazy monkey sex in the Danger Room with Pete Wisdom, so they trotted out a series of other characters to try and recapture that dynamic. poorly.

A complete aside, but while i was utterly disgusted with the character concept initialy (he's Wolverine's son! he has claws and a healing factor! and tattoos! and a fauxhawk!!! and he's BISEXUAL!!!!!!), they are doing some neat things with Daken: Son of Wolverine from what i peruse here and there.

mxlm, on Jul 21 2009, 07:19 PM, said:

So in the past couple weeks I've read seventy-seven issues of Witchblade. It's pretty bad. But I'm not stopping until I'm done!

The eye bleeding stops eventually.

Re Forge...

Quote

...if he is that clever and has that potential, what the fuck is he doing in the X-men's basement, or Excaliburs, or what ever? The guy should be out there bringing the marvel world into the year 3000. Why hasn't he built machine to cure all diseases, genetic disorders, cured death, given mankind spacetravel, teleportation machine, why hasn't he made himself into a god!?? I mean, he can invent ANYTHING?!

There was some character development about him back in the 80s that explains his humble and spiritual native american warrior nature or some bullshit like that.

Quote

...I always loved it when they split Forge and Storm up, so that she could have her romantic fling with the other black character in X-men, whom they added because the black kids parents were whining.

Yeah but the thing with Bishop never went anywhere and she was retconned to be his grandmother or something so ew.

re Planetary -

polishgenius, on Jul 26 2009, 10:44 AM, said:

*wets self with excitement*

Well, it'll be a while longer before the trade comes out, but still.

Am waiting for the trades to be complete, but psyched. Sad that it's taken this long.

Aptorian, on Jul 26 2009, 10:55 AM, said:

I just read a comic about some kind of military cyborg fighting a giant monster in an arena. The monster seemed to win when it pounded the cyborg uncouncious with it's erection.

Japanese comics are strange.

You're missing the symbolism. It's all about Hiroshima.


- Abyss, reformed comicaholic.

[Abyss]

Aptorian, on Jun 29 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

About continuity.

I'm currently some 1/3 through the whole Uncanny X-men run (supplementing with X-factor), currently I am at the point where the X-men are fighting Sinister and the Marauders, Madeline Pryor turns into the Goblin queen, Genosha is emerging, etc. And the amount of story I've gone through and the change I've witnessed from the 60s up into the end of the 80s is just amazing. It's easily manageable to understand all the plots and everything fits pretty sweetly together over the course of some 20 years of history. Granted a part of this success is because of Chris Claremont but it is still pretty damn impressive story telling.

On a sidenote, X-factor having never been published and large chunks of story being ignored in danish X-men, may I just say that I squealed like a little girl when I finally read the original stories about Sinister and Apocalypse.

Oh, and make a point of tracking down the X-MEN/FANTASTIC FOUR and (the less cool but not bad) X-MEN/AVENGERS limited series from around then. Good stuff, if only to see the Thang skullpunch Wolverine unconscious. Wolvie was weaker than.

- Abyss, ...even tho' the answer remains 'Wolverine'...