[polishgenius]

I can't comment on Final Crisis as a whole coz I've not read it, but I saw scans of the end of the last issue and

Spoiler

the thing with Batman pissed me off. Not that he died (or didn't who knows- knowing Morrison he'll probably be reborn as a new new god), that's fine by me, but the fact that he used a gun in the manner that he did. I mean, I maybe might accept that he might think Darkseid evil enough to need to kill and use said gun, but he's virtually smirking about it. Also, if Darkseid's really dead then it's just about the most pathetic death imaginable for a villain Morrison at least always been able to use brilliantly (his Rock of Ages arc pretty much sold me on the character whatever else may be done with him). That may not be Morrison's choice entirely but he could have made it less rubbish.

.


Oh, also, on comics in general, I read the first two volumes of Hellboy recently and I like muchly.

[Illuyankas]

polishgenius, on Jan 26 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

I can't comment on Final Crisis as a whole coz I've not read it, but I saw scans of the end of the last issue and

Spoiler

the thing with Batman pissed me off. Not that he died (or didn't who knows- knowing Morrison he'll probably be reborn as a new new god), that's fine by me, but the fact that he used a gun in the manner that he did. I mean, I maybe might accept that he might think Darkseid evil enough to need to kill and use said gun, but he's virtually smirking about it. Also, if Darkseid's really dead then it's just about the most pathetic death imaginable for a villain Morrison at least always been able to use brilliantly (his Rock of Ages arc pretty much sold me on the character whatever else may be done with him). That may not be Morrison's choice entirely but he could have made it less rubbish.

.


Oh, also, on comics in general, I read the first two volumes of Hellboy recently and I like muchly.

I saw it as

Spoiler

Batman being able to take out all his resentment and frustration on a lethal danger to the world, and he knew he was going to 'die' afterwards. I saw 'die' because instead of the Omega Effect, which removes you from reality at Darkseid's whim, he used the Omega Sanctum which I remember barely from Seven Soldiers, which sticks you in a state where you live out successively worsening lives. A state that someone has already escaped from. So that was rubbish.

And yes Hellboy is awesome.


EDIT: Also http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01...ne-simple-step/

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 26 January 2009 - 11:37 PM

[polishgenius]

Illuyankas, on Jan 26 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

polishgenius, on Jan 26 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

I can't comment on Final Crisis as a whole coz I've not read it, but I saw scans of the end of the last issue and

Spoiler

the thing with Batman pissed me off. Not that he died (or didn't who knows- knowing Morrison he'll probably be reborn as a new new god), that's fine by me, but the fact that he used a gun in the manner that he did. I mean, I maybe might accept that he might think Darkseid evil enough to need to kill and use said gun, but he's virtually smirking about it. Also, if Darkseid's really dead then it's just about the most pathetic death imaginable for a villain Morrison at least always been able to use brilliantly (his Rock of Ages arc pretty much sold me on the character whatever else may be done with him). That may not be Morrison's choice entirely but he could have made it less rubbish.

.


Oh, also, on comics in general, I read the first two volumes of Hellboy recently and I like muchly.

I saw it as

Spoiler

Batman being able to take out all his resentment and frustration on a lethal danger to the world, and he knew he was going to 'die' afterwards. I saw 'die' because instead of the Omega Effect, which removes you from reality at Darkseid's whim, he used the Omega Sanctum which I remember barely from Seven Soldiers, which sticks you in a state where you live out successively worsening lives. A state that someone has already escaped from. So that was rubbish.

And yes Hellboy is awesome.


EDIT: Also http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01...ne-simple-step/

Spoiler for Seven Soldiers and FC:

Spoiler

Wasn't that part a vision of Mr. Miracle's, and in any case Darkseid was weakened? I'm not convinced that it wasn't simply some alternate version of the Omega Effect because of either it not being real or Darkseid having been de-powered and not having access to his full powers, and that 'Sanction' isn't some name that Morrison made up to make it sound more grandoise - unless there's more hint of what it is in other comics. You never know with Morrison, who links Seven Soldiers and therefore Final Crisis with some utter obscurities he wrote, like a thing about his own Ultramarine Corps characters.

[Illuyankas]

polishgenius, on Jan 27 2009, 12:25 AM, said:

Spoiler for Seven Soldiers and FC:

Spoiler

Wasn't that part a vision of Mr. Miracle's, and in any case Darkseid was weakened? I'm not convinced that it wasn't simply some alternate version of the Omega Effect because of either it not being real or Darkseid having been de-powered and not having access to his full powers, and that 'Sanction' isn't some name that Morrison made up to make it sound more grandoise - unless there's more hint of what it is in other comics. You never know with Morrison, who links Seven Soldiers and therefore Final Crisis with some utter obscurities he wrote, like a thing about his own Ultramarine Corps characters.

More spoilers:

Spoiler

He was weakened, since he hadn't found a body that could take his essence until Turpin, but both Sanctions left a corpse behind, that Mr Miracle was able to return to and potentially Batman could do the same.

Also, want to hear who the first confirmed Black Lantern is?

Spoiler

Earth-2 Superman

[RodeoRanch]

Marvel and DC are both gloriously convoluted and stupid in their attempts at continuity. I can't make head or tails of most of the stuff.

That said, I do like the odd stand-alone Batman and Superman stuff. All-Star Superman makes me smile.

[stone monkey]

Most of the info about Final Crisis can be found here which is Douglas Wolk's (who posts on another forum I'm on and has written abook on Grant Morrison which I really should get around to reading) blog annotating the thing and has some more useful links.

Anyway, the point is, as we all know, and some of us have recently seen in Batman RIP, the Batman always wins because a] he's a genius and b] he's far more prepared than any sane person would, could or should be and c] he's the goddamn Batman.

His popping a cap in Darkseid's ass being a case in point - the only way he's hanging on to that bullet is if he thinks he might have to take down a New God at some stage in the future which, being the Batman, he wants to be prepared for; especially with one of them turning up dead on his planet. This is the guy, after all, who's used New Genesis motherbox/boom tube technology to make himself a hiding place off world and has detailed plans of how to take down all his friends the moment they even look like turning bad.

Being spread over the multiverse into a succession of worsening lives should be no problem to him at all. How much worse could it get for someone who watched his mother get shot in the face when he was 8 years old?

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 27 January 2009 - 03:09 AM

[detritus]

Illuyankas, on Jan 27 2009, 12:36 AM, said:

polishgenius, on Jan 27 2009, 12:25 AM, said:

Spoiler for Seven Soldiers and FC:

Spoiler

Wasn't that part a vision of Mr. Miracle's, and in any case Darkseid was weakened? I'm not convinced that it wasn't simply some alternate version of the Omega Effect because of either it not being real or Darkseid having been de-powered and not having access to his full powers, and that 'Sanction' isn't some name that Morrison made up to make it sound more grandoise - unless there's more hint of what it is in other comics. You never know with Morrison, who links Seven Soldiers and therefore Final Crisis with some utter obscurities he wrote, like a thing about his own Ultramarine Corps characters.

More spoilers:

Spoiler

He was weakened, since he hadn't found a body that could take his essence until Turpin, but both Sanctions left a corpse behind, that Mr Miracle was able to return to and potentially Batman could do the same.

Also, want to hear who the first confirmed Black Lantern is?

Spoiler

Earth-2 Superman

the other is

Spoiler

martian manhunter

I cant wait for Blackest night. GL has been great lately.

[Illuyankas]

So I read Final Crisis 7.

I want to punch Grant Morrison in the face.

[detritus]

Illuyankas, on Jan 28 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

So I read Final Crisis 7.

I want to punch Grant Morrison in the face.

I have no intention of reading issue 7, so could you elaborate.

[Illuyankas]

mandog, on Jan 30 2009, 08:35 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on Jan 28 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

So I read Final Crisis 7.

I want to punch Grant Morrison in the face.

I have no intention of reading issue 7, so could you elaborate.

Short version:

Spoiler

Everyone's left on the Watchtower as reality collapses. Darkseid's death - TOLD IN FLASHBACK - is basically the Flashes leading the Black Racer to Darkseid at superluminal speeds, allowing Darkseid to fire the bullet that killed Orion back in time to kill Orion just before the Racer reaches him and kills him. Lex and Sivana help out. Frankenstein (the monster, but he took the doctor's name) cured everyone of the Anti-Life Equation by being dead and making a large dog bite Wonder Woman, after Libra and Darkseid are killed. Meanwhile, Captain Marvel and the new female Question fly around in a multiversal ship recruiting almost every Superman in the multiverse, including Superobama. Back home, a robot Justice League go mad and break some trophies, then the good guys miniaturise all the survivors on the Watchtower and send them off somewhere in a rocket, while Superman says a word that blows up Darkseid's soul while making a machine that will fufill one wish. Suddenly, an evil space vampire Monitor called Mandrakk shows up to devour the multiverse along with a crazy vampire Ultraman, the Superman from the universe where all the Justice League are dicks, as his henchman. Then more suddenly a good Supermonitor calling himself The Judge Of All Evil shows up, summoning the army of Supermen assembled to defeat the evil space vampire Monitor called Mandrakk, and also Captain Carrot an anthromorphic superrabbit for some reason. Then some Green Lanterns show up, shout, "Spike this vampire!" and stake the evil space vampire Monitor called Mandrakk while the elite team of Supermen from the entire multiverse stand around and do nothing. Ultraman dies so pathetically I can't even remember who kills him. Superman makes the wish on the wish machine, and everything is fixed. Earth-51 is now the Kirby Universe, with the New Gods, including Orion who is somehow not dead and not including Darkseid who is dead, alive there and chilling out, while Kamandi is going around being the Last Boy or whatever I didn't care because they had the map with ORANGUTAN SURFING CIVILISATION on for that bit. Also Anthro the First Boy is there too. The Monitors get dissolved by Supermonitor - one old Monitor in particular saying, "Our story is toxic, we must end it," which I agreed heavily with - and Supermonitor wakes up as a human in a Metropolis flat. The book ends with Anthro the First Boy, now an old man in Earth-51, seemingly dying with the facepaint on, when a utility belt is laid on him and Batman wipes away the cave paintings of his, Superman and Wonder Woman's symbols from the cave wall seen on one of the Final Crisis 1 covers.

Long version:

Spoiler

Like the short version, except it makes less sense.

Illy's spoilerfree review:

Spoiler

I want to punch Grant Morrison in the face, over and over and over again.

[RodeoRanch]

Huh?


I'm just about finished Absolute Sandman volume 1. Interesting book. I like all the literary allusions and winks and nods.

[stone monkey]

Well I kinda liked it. Though it probably makes waaay more sense if you've read the Superman Beyond 3D two-parter.

Otherwise, yeah, I see your point.

[Illuyankas]

I did. Still doesn't excuse

Spoiler

Darkseid being made even less threatening despite all the stuff about making him scary as he used to be - for fuck's sake he's not even the main villain, who literally came out of nowhere and did less than nothing.

Oh, and the Resist tie-in doesn't actually fit in anywhere anymore, it can't be canon.

The only thing that changed is that

Spoiler

the Monitors are gone

and that will make no difference whatsoever.

[polishgenius]

I think it was mildly predictable that Morrison let off the leash was going to go off the rails a bit - the man's got a brainfull of ideas but bloody hell is he arrogant about it, which in consequence means he has no self-discipline.

I still want to read FC though, despite already knowing what happens, because it sounds as if it at least has balls, even if the general consensus is that it was a bit disappointing.

And it's got to be said, at least some of the decisions are almost certainly editorial and not Morrison's, for example

Spoiler

everything being reset by a magical machine. Now, while it was unlikely that he was ever going to be allowed to destroy the earth permanently, the magic machine sounds like a total rush job - I mean, Morrison pretty much did the same basic idea in two issues Rock of Ages and that was brilliant, but it had a plausible reason for it all being undone. You have to wonder though, why didn't they just do it as an unconnected alternative universe event, like Kingdom Come back in the day? This thing for connecting everything together in an arbitrary multiverse is just pissing me off, the whole idea of elseworlds in the first place was to allow stories that really fucked with the status quo without having to edit them back to nicety afterwards. Didio is racing Quesada for the stupidity award, I suppose.

Anyway, on a related note, I'm interested in the Wildstorm Universe, because they seem to be doing interesting stuff.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 31 January 2009 - 02:17 AM

[Illuyankas]

I will admit that Most Excellent Superbat's superpower was pretty awesome.

But now that you mention it...

WHERE THE FUCKING FUCK HAS PLANETARY #27 GONE

Also, polishgenius, when you read FC #7 make sure to

Spoiler

check the big Supermen splash page carefully

[polishgenius]

Spoiler

If you're referring to Apollo and Majestic, I already heard about them and will defo keep an eye out, but ta.

Yeah, Ellis has been assuring us that Cassaday's just finishing up #27 since about April last year and I'm starting to get worried. Although, on an Ellis note, FreakAngels is absolutely wicked.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 31 January 2009 - 02:29 AM

[Illuyankas]

Spoiler

That's it, I haven't finished all the Wildstorm stuff and I keep forgetting Majestic's name

About Planetary - yeah, I'd complain about it, but seriously, it's Warren Ellis. You do not fuck with Warren Ellis.

[polishgenius]

I'm quite a fan of Majestic's second solo series, by Abnett and Lanning. Not sure why, as it's nothing spectacular whatsoever, but it's a lot of fun. And the art is partly by Neil Googe, who's awesome.

I have a soft spot for Wildstorm in general, since Authority was the first superhero series I read and when I started collecting, Stormwatch was where I went to first.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 31 January 2009 - 02:42 AM

[Illuyankas]

Abnett is my favourite cheesy writer, so that's cool - I think he's currently on Nova, which is getting pretty weird at the moment. Cheers for the suggestion.

[polishgenius]

Hmm. Apparently the Wildstorm world-changers are already collected and out - I'd been informed they weren't, and although it seemed a long time I believed that coz I've not seen them. I'll have to get on it, especially since it's also now apparently back on track with having had regular, timely releases since the new relaunch so I won't be waiting long for the trades of the series themselves.

And Authority is also currently written by Abnett and Lanning...

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 31 January 2009 - 02:54 AM