[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Macros;337085 said:

I'm confused as to what part of my views confuse you, I'm saying its unnatural for two people of the same sex to have a child, as they can't actually have a child. What's so hard to grasp?

So instead it's better that child should sit in an orphanage or foster care? From what I've heard, the foster care system is not a good way to grow up for most kids. It's unnatural for one couple to have as many foster kids as they often do, so we should do away with that system? In that case, all that's left is the orphanage. Again, it's even more unnatural for a small group of adults to raise that many kids, as it isn't natural. So, we should do away the orphanages too! Now what the hell do we do with all of these orphans?

Children not having parents is what is unnatural. So i say get them parents. It's not like there are so many potential adoptive parents fighting over the kids that if the gays get a few some straight couple will go without. If gays don't adopt, then there will be MORE unadopted kids! How is this better?

[Morgoth]

Macros;337085 said:

I'm confused as to what part of my views confuse you, I'm saying its unnatural for two people of the same sex to have a child, as they can't actually have a child. What's so hard to grasp?

I think they understand what you mean, but question the validity of the assumptions you make.

[Macros]

~shrug~
Each to their own then, my views arent likely to change, terribly sorry if that offends

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Morgoth;337096 said:

I think they understand what you mean, but question the validity of the assumptions you make.

Yup. So far, Macros, you've failed to define what you mean by natural or come up with an alternative term, or explain in what way it'll be harmful to the child, other than they might get teased. You've got to explain yourself better.

Simply repeating "it's unnatural" isn't getting it done.

[Aimless]

Macros;337100 said:

~shrug~
Each to their own then, my views arent likely to change, terribly sorry if that offends

I explained my question, aren't you going to answer it?

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Macros;337100 said:

~shrug~
Each to their own then, my views arent likely to change, terribly sorry if that offends

I understand your views aren't going to change. I just would like to hear a good explanation. All you're saying up to this point is "it's unnatural because it's unnatural, and that's bad."

Honestly, this makes it seem like you can't explain it yourself. Which leads me to think that it goes back to what we discussed earlier-your admitted case of mild homophobia.

[Nequam]

MrXIII;144662 said:

god n Politics don't mix

Exactly. As soon as someone tries to mix them, nothing works out and often ends up in violence of some kind.

Quote

Not horribly homophobic, but if seeing gayness bothers you, that is indeed homophobic.

Really? well, I guess I'm a little homophobic then. I have nothing really against it, and I beleive everyone has their own choice, but it does bother me (I think it's incredibly gross) to see it in any form...well holding hands and such won't bother me. lol


I personally think that anyone who has shown to be responsible adults (as in no criminal record, drug addiction, etc.) who can afford a child should be allowed to adopt. Which can easily include people of the gay community. Why not? I know some gay people who could be great parents. Very nice people; considerate, understanding, patient, and helpful. Being gay doesn't make you a bad person, or make you less capable of bringing up a normal child. There will always be bad parents, but the ones who adopt are almost never those bad parents.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Nequam;337109 said:

it does bother me (I think it's incredibly gross) to see it in any form...

I am thoroughly amazed that you have any question or doubt that this is homophobic.

[Aimless]

I'm guessing you'd find two extremely unattractive individuals kissing to be similarly repulsive...?

[Nequam]

Huh? I don't doubt that. I'm not scared of them or anything. I admitted that I have a mild case of homophobia. I like the people, I just don't like the homosexuality. I treat them the same, but just aviod seeing it. I wish it didn't bother me, but it does a little. I don't want them to change or anything. I also dislike seeing my parents kissing. It goes no further than something like that. I simply leave the room or say, "come on, not in front of me." Usually in a joking kind of tone. I just don't like seeing it. What is so amazing?

Aimless;337117 said:

I'm guessing you'd find two extremely unattractive individuals kissing to be similarly repulsive...?

Yes.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Nequam;337119 said:

Huh? I don't doubt that. I'm not scared of them or anything. I admitted that I have a mild case of homophobia. I like the people, I just don't like the homosexuality. I treat them the same, but just aviod seeing it. I wish it didn't bother me, but it does a little. I don't want them to change or anything. I also dislike seeing my parents kissing. It goes no further than something like that. I simply leave the room or say, "come on, not in front of me." Usually in a joking kind of tone. I just don't like seeing it. What is so amazing?


Yes.

It's not amazing that you feel that, a lot of people do. What amazed me is that you seemed surprised that feeling that way is homophobic. With your new post, you no longer sound surprised by that, so i am no longer amazed.

[Nequam]

Haha, oh. No I wasn't really surprised, I knew I was. That was me kinda making fun of Macros in my own non-mean way.

Though Macros, I do understand what you are saying, but I think it could, might, possibly, maybe be because you do have slightly homophobic tendencies. So your first instinct would be, "Hey, no they shouldn't do that." Yet if you just think about a little more, put yourself in their shoes, it is easy to understand why they should be aloud to adopt as well. It would also be much easier if you were friends with some gay people. (Maybe you are I don't know)


...is there anyone here who is actually against same-sex mariage? If not I'm afraid we won't have much to disscuss. As it seems the adoption issue is kinda dead or dieing at least.

[Aimless]

An alternative interpretation may be that he's "uggophobic", and two men kissing isn't all that different (in terms of appeal) from a horribly ugly man and a hideously deformed woman woman kissing.

Do you feel less repulsed by the sight of seeing two hot women make out?

[Nequam]

Hmmm, you know that could be it. But then the question would be if he is okay with ugly people (which is in the eye of the beholder!) adopting.

...actually women making out still bothers me a little (although yes, it is significantly less repulsive). Which most of my friends think is weird (and some joke that it means I'm slightly gay, as I need a man there to make things better ) I don't know about Macros though.

[Morgoth]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;337121 said:

It's not amazing that you feel that, a lot of people do. What amazed me is that you seemed surprised that feeling that way is homophobic. With your new post, you no longer sound surprised by that, so i am no longer amazed.

There are feelings that are difficult to dispell, no matter how much you'd wish otherwise. I for instance have nothing against homosexuality, and have never been bothered by public signs of affection. Yet I cannot help but being really disturbed and somewhat... repulsed by men trying to hit on me. I just find it really unpleasant.

what I'm trying to say is that I don't think you deserve being marked as a homophobe if you have such feelings but know that they are irrational and try not to let them influence you.

[Nequam]

Sweet! Yeah, so I'm not a homophobe RLY.

I am thoroughly amazed that you would just go around marking people as homophobic based on your definition of it.


Can I ask you Morgoth; what is it that offends you when men hit on you. Isn't it just showing you that you are attractive, and therfore should boost your self-esteem at least a little? We are just trying to help lower suicide rates! :cool:

...but in all seriousness, what about it offends you?

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Knowing and admitting your homophobic feelings are irrational and wrong doesn't make them not homophobic. It's admirable that you try to work through them and not let them affect how you treat people, but they're still homophobic feelings.

That being said however, there is a distinction between people who have few homophobic thoughts from time to time, and rabid HOMOPHOBES who think gays are the scum of the earth. I think evveryone here is capable of making that distinction.

@Nequam: My definition is, or course, the only one that matters.

[Macros]

oh god, seeing fuglies make out is equally horendous, akin to parental smooching, something I plain dont want to see.
I mean its not like I go out of my way and run screaming from a room if theres two men kissing, I jsut would choose not to witness, but I would hardly stand staring at anyone making out, it would be a bit.... fnah no? On the flip side if its two hot chick kissing theres always the though lurking in the back of your head that they actually want you to join them, which will result in your getting to bone two hotties for the price of one so to speak, but in the bigger picture I hold no better/worse impression of gays over straight people.

Regarding my belief, I dont think its a freud like irrational fear that the kid is going to be badly treated, I'm sure as you've said theres plenty of gay couples out there would make for great parent material, I still think (I am under no illusions that any of you agree with me) that a "natural" parental unit is the way forward (by natural I mean a male a female, as that generally whats required to produce the kiddies) I'm talking about adoption here still, I dont think single people should be allowed to adopt either, its just my beliefs, I cant quntify them any more than I have, If my explanation is insufficent for aimless and co well.....tough shit

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

And with that, I think we've exhausted the conversation. Bye folks, thanks for coming out, see you at the next thread resurrection.

[Nequam]

Quote

Knowing and admitting your homophobic feelings are irrational and wrong doesn't make them not homophobic. It's admirable that you try to work through them and not let them affect how you treat people, but they're still homophobic feelings.

That being said however, there is a distinction between people who have few homophobic thoughts from time to time, and rabid HOMOPHOBES who think gays are the scum of the earth. I think evveryone here is capable of making that distinction.

@Nequam: My definition is, or course, the only one that matters.

Hmmm. That makes sense....but, well, ummm, I don't wanna be a homophobe.

I like what Morgoth said better.



Is it any form of homophobia to think that many gay men are incredibly funny. I can't help but laugh at the way many of the designers on TV talk, look, and act. I don't mean to offend them, but I have never met one gay person who actually talks like them and has all of those erratic body...movments. I almost think they chose those people on purpose.



@Macros. I'm sorry, but how the hell...why....I can't even form a coherent sentance. If you yourself said that a gay person could make a good parent, why the f*ck should you not alow them to adopt!? Becaus it isn't natural? Well the couples who can't have kids can't because of how their bodies natually work, they shouldn't have kids either then. There are so many things that are just dumb about your reasoning. How would you feel? Do what I said, and put yourself in there shoes. Try, really try to do it. You want to raise a child, you are ready financially and emontionally, and have always wanted a child of your own. You also have found the love of your life. You can't imagine not being them, and you both want to spend the rest of your lives together and raise a beautiful child of your own. Now you can't, because of who you are. All because some dude in the government says it isn't natural. Despite how capable you are.