[spernst]

Then why even bother posting if you're going to come right out and say that the entire discussion is pointless? If your mind is made up and you refuse to consider any position that contradicts your own, why even bother?



Ahhh...the joy of internet forums!

[tromedlov87]

For me, the problems with GOTM have already been mentioned - Too much info too quickly, seemingly "jumping" plot (Malazans to Darus), etc. I'll also add that the reason that the characters aren't immediately easy to care about is just another result of being thrown into the story. I mean, we're introduced to the world and people in it somewhat, but ultimately we know NOTHING about any of the characters for quite awhile. I've always found it difficult to care about a character and what happens to them until I get some emotional investment in them - and this is slow to come in GOTM (at least, I thought it was). So, yes, I think that looked at on its own GOTM is definitely the worst Malazan book (that I've read - I'm in the middle of RG) .

That being said, for me, GOTM has become something else entirely than it was when I first read it. I think it's a book that only truly shines on a re-read. The first time I read it, I didn't really start ti enjoy it much until about 1/2 to 2/3 through, and even then I was still very confused and not entirely sold. The second time through (after reading DG and MOI) I liked it much more and loved being able to understand it better. Oddly enough, the third time I read it, I liked it even more. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just going to like the book better every time I read it. It's hard to explain, really - I think it's because I really like the setting of Darujhistan, and... I don't know, I just really can't explain it. Part of it, though, is that the last 100-200 pages of the book, especially the Fete, is now one of my favorite parts in any book I can think of.

I may get blasted for this, but although I agree DG is a better book, I really felt like GOTM was better than DG as a reread. For whatever reason, even though the Chain of Dogs plotline was my favorite part of DG the first time through, I just couldn't get into it at all the second time. I think it's because so much of it relied on anticipation and uncertainty, as well as fear about the outcome, etc. With those elements gone from me knowing the ending of the book, all (well, most) of the Chain segments felt rather boring the second time around. I'm not sure why that's the case, since normally knowing what happens in a book has little to do with how much I enjoy reading it again later, but that's how it was for me.

[Serenity]

I think there must've been some sort of reverse psychology going on for me when I first read GotM. I read some reviews and loads of comments on Amazon - many of which had similar criticisms to those in this thread - before buying it. And then SE's intro mentioned as much again, but still I loved it, right from the start. Maybe it was because I knew what to expect, or I was thinking I might hate it. I thought it exuded atmosphere from the first line. There was a sense of history and depth about it that wowed me. Out of the admittedly few people I know who have read it, I know I'm in a minority. On re-read I enjoyed it even more. I must confess that I like a couple of the later books a hell of a lot less than this one (namely RG and DoD).

I think the biggest compliment I can pay GotM is that it inspired me. Many years ago I had tried and enjoyed writing stories, but it had fallen by the wayside. This novel (and SE's brilliant intro) got me started again. Doesn't mean I've actually finished anything, yet, though!

[Bonecaster]

I haven't read any of the posts in this thread. I just wanted to brag that I'm one of the lucky ones who was entirely captivated by GotM! Right from Fiddler pointedly ignoring Laseen in the beginning.

[George Sengar]

As I just posted in the fav char thread, I started the series with MOI then went back to the start and worked my way through. I think doing it that way gave me a different experience to what the majority go through.

I was already used to knowing nothing, so that didn't matter, and I already had a connection with the majority characters.
I spent the initial 1/3 of GotM flipping backwards and forwards trying to find all the bits about the siege of Pale and piece together everything I'd missed about the BB's betrayal and all the other things mentioned/hinted at, in MOI.
By the time I got to Rake asking Baruk for the mages heads I'd pretty much given up on that. At that point I decided nothing was going to be forthcoming and it was time to just read the damn book.

It was the most enjoyably frustrating book I've ever read. =D

[latreille]

Let me start by saying that before I started reading this series I was not a reader. I hadn't read a book unforced in over 10 years then I decided out of the blue to try and get into a book. its now 2 months since I started reading GOTM and I'm already on the 4th book in the series (house of chains) and cannot put the books down.
The first book is kinda hard to keep into for about the first half and I think its because there are so many characters to get to know. And just as u think you've got it all figured out it introduces a whole new cast of characters.

I strongly encourage everyone to get through GOTM because once u get through it the series really takes off and if you're a fan of fantasy novels then I guarantee that u will be completely addicted by the time u finish the second book (deadhouse gates) which is epic I might add and it keeps getting better from there...well so far anyways.

This post has been edited by latreille: 10 July 2011 - 07:07 PM

[Luzburg]

I read Reapers Gale first. So that hooked me and also remains one of my favourite books.

[TaxManATX]

My experience with GotM is very similar to latreille's. The only books I had really read by choice before Malazan were Harry Potter and Goosebumps... I did have a bit of trouble getting sucked into Gardens because of two reasons: the way the reader is thrown into a strange and unfamiliar world, and the sheer number of characters. After getting about a third of the way (maybe halfway) into the book, the mystery became one of the main forces keeping me interested. I was so perplexed by the magic system that I couldn't help but continue on in order to understand how it worked.

I have tried to get several friends and relatives into the series without success. However, I believe my failure is attributed to the idea of reading 10 ~800 page books and another 4 books rather than the complexity of the opening novel. Maybe I should follow the advice I saw in another post around here and tell them it's only two novels and that sexy vampires show up in the second one. =)

[Daemonwolf]

I read Gardens of the Moon first, before i even knew it was a series even. I've been very unsuccessful in trying to get anyone else to read it all the way through... I've been hooked on the whole series since Gardens of the Moon, even though to me personally its the worst book of the entire series. That said, the entire series would not have been if it weren't for GoTM, and I still enjoy it.

The only advice I can possibly thing of for getting others to read it, is that while it may not be the best book in the series, it is without doubt the first leg of an amazing journey.

[TaxManATX]

I would also like to say that I haven't read Gardens since I first read it about 7 years ago and I cannot wait to read it again now that I know what I know!

[amphibian]

Luzburg, on 12 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I read Reapers Gale first. So that hooked me and also remains one of my favourite books.

That is an unusual entrance point to the series. I started with Memories of Ice, looped back and then continued on.

[Luzburg]

amphibian, on 13 July 2011 - 02:44 AM, said:

Luzburg, on 12 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I read Reapers Gale first. So that hooked me and also remains one of my favourite books.

That is an unusual entrance point to the series. I started with Memories of Ice, looped back and then continued on.

I know. I picked it up in the library randomly. I'd only recently read most of WoT so I was only really getting into the heavier series of fantasy.

It blew my mind. I have to say garden's is good, but not on the level of Reaper's for me!

So I don't know, would I have been so easger to read the series after GotM.... probably, since I tend to finish any book I get.

[Daemonwolf]

Luzburg, on 13 July 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

amphibian, on 13 July 2011 - 02:44 AM, said:

Luzburg, on 12 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I read Reapers Gale first. So that hooked me and also remains one of my favourite books.

That is an unusual entrance point to the series. I started with Memories of Ice, looped back and then continued on.

I know. I picked it up in the library randomly. I'd only recently read most of WoT so I was only really getting into the heavier series of fantasy.

It blew my mind. I have to say garden's is good, but not on the level of Reaper's for me!

So I don't know, would I have been so easger to read the series after GotM.... probably, since I tend to finish any book I get.

Yeah, i suffer from "must read entire book/series syndrome myself... which made the later books in WoT soooooooooo hard. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but i was quite liking the WoT series until it started switching pace and losing focus on the original main characters. Dont get me wrong, I love multiple vantage points and all (SE fan and all) but the first 5 books of WoT were all pretty focused around Perrin, Matt, and Rand and then everything started crawling after that to me.... maybe i should go re-read them, but I just dont have the motivation to endure the final books again.

[Luzburg]

Daemonwolf, on 14 July 2011 - 04:05 AM, said:

Luzburg, on 13 July 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

amphibian, on 13 July 2011 - 02:44 AM, said:

Luzburg, on 12 July 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I read Reapers Gale first. So that hooked me and also remains one of my favourite books.

That is an unusual entrance point to the series. I started with Memories of Ice, looped back and then continued on.

I know. I picked it up in the library randomly. I'd only recently read most of WoT so I was only really getting into the heavier series of fantasy.

It blew my mind. I have to say garden's is good, but not on the level of Reaper's for me!

So I don't know, would I have been so easger to read the series after GotM.... probably, since I tend to finish any book I get.

Yeah, i suffer from "must read entire book/series syndrome myself... which made the later books in WoT soooooooooo hard. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but i was quite liking the WoT series until it started switching pace and losing focus on the original main characters. Dont get me wrong, I love multiple vantage points and all (SE fan and all) but the first 5 books of WoT were all pretty focused around Perrin, Matt, and Rand and then everything started crawling after that to me.... maybe i should go re-read them, but I just dont have the motivation to endure the final books again.

I only got that feeling at book nine and ten to be honest. eleven was ok and after that it got almost better than the first five xD

[Moon Chaser]

I had no problems getting into it; but then again I'm used to the Black Company and G.R.R.M.

[BlackMoranthofDoom]

I had no trouble getting into it but did find the novel very confusing at the beginning. The thing that makes this book difficult for some is the lack of an early buildup. Readers are thrown into this massive conflict and need to complete the puzzle on their own. I remenber having so many questions after finishing GOTM. Compare that to Game of Thrones where practically everything was clear after finishing the novel.

[Solidsnape]

I tried to get 'her' to read it, but she said it read with a "booming voice" and she 'dropped' it after the prologue.

This is the person that read Life of Pi with an Indian accent.
Yeah she's weird.

I'm thinking of getting her to start DG instead.

[Clip]

When I read Gardens for the first time, and in every re-read since, I just get blown away by the imagery and the excitement and the emotion. when I first picked it up, I immediately put it down again because I was intimidated by the character list (I was only around 12 at the time). A few days (or hours) later and I decided to just ignore the Dramatis Personae and dive in. And during that first read, I never once went back to check it. If I didn't know who a character was, or what was going on, or was confused about aspects of the world (like the magic), well, I was enjoying myself too much to care. It's something I find with all of SE's works (but especially in Gardens), and it what made (and still makes) the series so engaging for me: plot becomes secondary to the imagery (of places and events), and the characters. I wasn't interested in what was going to happen to a character because of what it means for the plot, but because of what it means to the character. I think for me, starting the series when I was so young was incredibly helpful, I didn't have any of those nagging feelings that I get now when stuff happens in a book that I don't understand.

I suppose then my advice for people having trouble getting into Gardens is to just ignore that feeling of discomfort from being placed in this unknown world, and focus on the amazing imagery and emotions that the words create in you. If you do, then you will never stop reading these books, and they can change your life. They've certainly changed mine.

[Jake57]

It was tough going until I got to about page 200, where five of the main characters get together. Now I can breathe a sigh of relief and continue (I'm halfway through).

[Tristan Jay]

Having just recently finished Gardens, I thought I would add some of my (on topic) thoughts to some of the topics here already. I went into the book with full knowledge that other readers had difficulty with Gardens. A friend of mine describes the way the narrative jumps around without delving into the actually story details, so this helped a fair amount.

The way the world is gradually revealed in small snippets scattered throughout the text, some of it requiring inference from characters actions and interactions reminded me so very much of the way Frank Herbert's Dune unfold; with the main difference is that you wait a lot longer with Gardens before the narrative returns to characters you've been somewhat familiarized with. I think that was the key for me.

Around page 240 was that moment were I thought things were going to settle down, where I had reached the point that I thought I knew enough of the characters. A chapter later, the narrative took one last opportunity to jump away from that comfort zone, and I had a moment of panic and dispair. After that it was pretty "smooth sailing" with the exceptions of a few oddities that cropped up in the rush of the last 100 pages and jarred the progression of the endgame just a bit.