[blewin]

It seems from Paran's answer to QB's question about Tavore in BH, that Ganoes places quite a faith in his sister. But what is Tavore's opinion of her brother? If they meet in Reaper's Gale, would it be a confrontation or reunion?

I'm a bit perplexed about Paran's view of Tavore too. It seems that Paran trusts Tavore to take care of Felisin, yet somewhere in one of the books (can't remember now), he says that Tavore would do what she needs to get what she wants (i.e the position as adjunct).

But I guess, despite their differences, they'll be cooperating to fight against the CG.

thoughts?

[Dolorous Menhir]

They didn't seem to like each other very much when they spoke in GotM.

Beyond that, I don't have much of a handle on what they think of each other.

[Illuyankas]

If they meet up, there might be some trouble over whose rank is higher - if Tavore orders the Host to join with the 14th, Ganoes will almost certainly refuse to let his troops be co-opted, not to mention they won't be led by anyone else at this point.

And Ganoes finding out what happened to Felisin - after Corabb and Mathok have a chat and Mathok twigs - but never seeing Tavore alive again might be interesting, but a bit reminiscent of Felisin/Sha'ik.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Interesting question - does an Adjunct outrank a Fist (or does being leader of the Host make Paran a High Fist, which was Dujek's rank?).

And would the siblings be concerned enough about the rules of the Empire to consider such things?

I don't really see the two struggling for control of the other's armies.

[bwgan]

I can see there being an initial turmoil, especially when/if they find out how Felisin died, but they are both basically decent people, doing the best they can so I think it will turn out ok in the end.

(Look I know that I am an optimist, but SE has never been cruel before has h...oh...might need a rethink )

[Blend]

Yall are forgetting that Tavore no longer has a rank, she is outlawed, the Empress tried to have her killed by the Claw. If anything, when they meet it will be a "Allegiance to the Empire" vs. "Allegiance to the Higher Powers" type of thing for Ganoes...

The few bits of information we've gotten regarding Ganoes and Tavore's relationship makes it seem to me as if they don't really get along, and may not necessarily see things the same way, but Ganoes still loves his sister, and knows her well enough to know that she wouldn't do anything to hurt her family unless it was absolutely necessary. She needed to become the Adjunct, and in order to do that, she NEEDED to put Felisin into the mines... She hired Baudin to protect her because it seemed that that was her only solution. The fact that Baudin was unable to perform his task was due in large part to Felisin's own interruption in the plans, and her sulkish attitude.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Well, how about we look at it this way -

Ganoes is the Master of the Deck AND her big brother...so she'll probably do whatever she wants.

[Illuyankas]

You have a younger sister too, eh?

[The Rope]

He is High Fist. The Host bestowed that rank upon him, and thereby pledged allegiance to him as their leader.

There will be no struggle for power, as Paran is assumably more knowledgeable (and more powerful, obviously) than Tavore... And no doubt many officers in the 14th are aware of Paran's rep, and the fact he was the last captain of the BB will create loyalty in many. I'm sure the Perish will support him, also... htough i cant explain why in any sensible terms...

[blewin]

I don't think there'll be a struggle for power... it seems that each army has adopted its own favourite leader. The Host, Paran, and the 14th, Tavore. um hum, more likely, there'll be contest between the two of which is the better army.

Blend;138726 said:

her well enough to know that she wouldn't do anything to hurt her family unless it was absolutely necessary. She needed to become the Adjunct, and in order to do that, she NEEDED to put Felisin into the mines... She hired Baudin to protect her because it seemed that that was her only solution. The fact that Baudin was unable to perform his task was due in large part to Felisin's own interruption in the plans, and her sulkish attitude.

now I never quite get that bit. Did Tavore want the position due to selfish reason? or is it because of a higher power? (T'amber)

I don't think the two of them would find out about Felisin.. it possibly would remain a mystery for the two of them. As per SE style, there're lots of things that characters don't know but we readers do.

[frank]

Both armies will follow THEIR CHOSEN leader and I don't belive any of the Ganoes are interested in the others army. Tavore's has chosen her before the empire and Parans host seems to be willing to follow him everywhere.
They might try to persuade each other to go for the same goal as he/she is, but they will not fight over it.

[lfex]

I don't think either Ganoes or Tavore will ever know the turth about Felisin. Erikson tried really hard to show us how this truth stays hidden from them - as in Mathok incdent - and I suspect it won't change. It would mean that Tavore and Ganoes won't quarrel - at least for this reason, they still may have different purposes.

[Ninelives]

blewin;138856 said:

now I never quite get that bit. Did Tavore want the position due to selfish reason? or is it because of a higher power? (T'amber)

Bit of both, I suppose. Gamet in HoC mentioned rumours of Ganoes being a traitor who had caused Lorn's death which caused the house of Paran to fall into disgrace, and I remember a small bit in MoI where Ganoes says something about entrusting Tavore with the task of redeeming the Paran family name. I believe that one of the reasons Tavore became the Adjunct was so she could do just that.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ninelives;138859 said:

Bit of both, I suppose. Gamet in HoC mentioned rumours of Ganoes being a traitor who had caused Lorn's death which caused the house of Paran to fall into disgrace, and I remember a small bit in MoI where Ganoes says something about entrusting Tavore with the task of redeeming the Paran family name. I believe that one of the reasons Tavore became the Adjunct was so she could do just that.

That, and Tavore is no fool. She would've known another purge of the nobility was on the way, and she probably figured that her family would certainly be on the death lists post-Ganoes' disgrace. So she did what she had to protect herself and her sister, and that was pledging service to the Empire. And she went all the way, becoming right-hand woman to the Empress herself.

I don't think redeeming the family name was a big consideration - Tavore doesn't seem to care what people think of her, rather she does what is necessary. Since she and Felisin were the only family members in a position to care about their reputation (Ganoes being an outlaw and the parents being dead), it just doesn't seem so important a motivation.

[Abyss]

Oooooor...

They meet up. One of them ends up commanding the combined army, and the other ends up with a small select group (ie: Faradan's Sort's squads, on the Silana, probably with Withal and co in tow) on a 'special mission'.

But i really doubt there will be a serious conflict.

Both have resigned from the Malazan army and are serving 'higher' purposes.

- Abyss, loves a good special mission. Preferably to a martini lounge.

[Ninelives]

Dolorous Menhir;138884 said:

I don't think redeeming the family name was a big consideration - Tavore doesn't seem to care what people think of her, rather she does what is necessary. Since she and Felisin were the only family members in a position to care about their reputation (Ganoes being an outlaw and the parents being dead), it just doesn't seem so important a motivation.

You're right. After I posted that, I went back to MoI and checked up on what Ganoes said, and turns out I misremembered. There wasn't anything about redeeming the name, only protecting the family. D'oh.

[blewin]

I wonder what Laseen gets out of this. She should've seen it coming, right? about losing her commands. maybe it's her plan all along?

[The Rope]

By keeping the two major armies of teh Empire loyal to the empire, and not to any half-witted power-hungry bastard that comes around (Mallick and the other dude...) she makes sure to keep those dudes from wresting control from her without thinking twice. They know that if they take control from laseen, who is a better loved leader than either could be, they would have trouble - trouble they don't want. The two most seasoned and beset led armies of the empire coming back to take revenge would be disastrous for them. They cannot usurp Laseen while her Adjunct and chosen Clawmaster, not to mention greatest army and fleet, are still around, no matter the ramifications of their leaving (defecting).

[blewin]

serious? I was just guessing. I didn't think the people really love Laseen though...

who's the chosen Clawmaster?

[Paran]

Great post Rope, pretty much sums it up. Not sure whether Laseen's actions are by design or someone far more subtle is behind these plays, but it seems to point to your scenario. I don't believe that Ganoes and Tavore will meet until the final chapter. The significance of the Paran family seems to be far-reaching and look forward to these revelations in future books. As is, they hold the greatest resources of the Malazan Empire, and I'm sure that this will be a mojor contributor to the downfall on the Empire (though Grub does return to be First Sword, so there must be some changes).

All in good time... I can't wait!