[caladanbrood]

Got a generic email from Amazon earlier, which is of no interest to me, but fans of Gaiman's Sandman series might be very interested to know that they are currently taking orders for the "Absolute Sandman" box-set at a 34% discount. Normal RRP will be £70, but it's currently on offer for £46.20
Still expensive yes, but a considerable reduction on the RRP.

Anyone interested in it - don't forget to follw the amazon links at the top of the page to support the forum:)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Absolute-Sandman-N...ie=UTF8&s=books

[QuickTidal]

Do you know, I was in the bookstore today, and I saw this on a display, picked it up and realized the thing weighs a bloody ton!! LOL

[vaiski]

This is first of 4 volumes, btw - even with discount still bloody expensive.

[Morgoth]

oooooo.. This will be mine!

[edit]only the first of four? So, prelude nocturnal and a Dolls House then? Hmpf, I thought it was the whole lot.. how dissapointing.

Vaiski to the rescue

[caladanbrood]

It's not even the whole thing? Bloomin' eck, that is expensive!

[Whelp]

Damn, that is frightening... Still, the temptation...

[Abyss]

It IS an amazing series. Gaiman has a way with dialogue in Sandman that i have yet to find elsewhere... no lines are wasted and EVERYTHING has a point.

- Abyss, has the first three and last three, filling in the middle slowly.

[stone monkey]

Actually I think I'll disagree with you all there. I loved the series back when I bought it as floppies, but I was young and pretentious back then. Nowadays I find the whole self conscious hipness of it nigh on unreadable.

Some of the individual issues still hold up Element Girl, Hob Gadling, the Cats etc..But the rest comes across to me now as juvenile (in the sense that it's overly concerned with its own cleverness; rather than simply just being clever, it has to beat you about the head with how clever it's being...)and a bit laboured. And the writing does seem to get carried away with cod pomposity and self importance.

The ideas are still good though...

[Abyss]

I'm not really sure what is pompous about cod, but while yours is a point i have heard before, and do understand, i disgree with it and think you must be cold and dead inside (tho i mean that in a nice way ).

I suppose it's that as i see it, a story that purports to touch upon the embodiment of all dreams, his sister Death, the complete-or-so works of William Shakespeare, roughly every god or God ever, all the history of the world, several decades worth of DC comics no one ever read, Tori Amos, angels, the devil (s)..., is absolutely going to be pretentious. Just thinking that such a story exists, let alone presuming to write it, is sheer hubris. And yet Gaiman makes it work. Not always great, but i do think the strengths outweigh the weaknesses.

It's been adopted by the emo/goth crowd over time - probably more due to the lead characters' tendency to dress in black and need a tan than any other reason - and this does put people off, but overall, i thought the good outweighed the bad on the series.

Plus it's a comic that doesn't focus on some dude wearing his underwear on the outside of his pants.

All of which is to say, SMonkey, that i get what you mean and see how others can view it that way, but i think there's more to the series than that and agree with you on the good ideas in there.

- Abyss, thankfully grew out of that underwear on the outside fashion stage.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss;137293 said:

I'm not really sure what is pompous about cod, but while yours is a point i have heard before, and do understand, i disgree with it and think you must be cold and dead inside (tho i mean that in a nice way ).

I suppose it's that as i see it, a story that purports to touch upon the embodiment of all dreams, his sister Death, the complete-or-so works of William Shakespeare, roughly every god or God ever, all the history of the world, several decades worth of DC comics no one ever read, Tori Amos, angels, the devil (s)..., is absolutely going to be pretentious. Just thinking that such a story exists, let alone presuming to write it, is sheer hubris. And yet Gaiman makes it work. Not always great, but i do think the strengths outweigh the weaknesses.

It's been adopted by the emo/goth crowd over time - probably more due to the lead characters' tendency to dress in black and need a tan than any other reason - and this does put people off, but overall, i thought the good outweighed the bad on the series.

Plus it's a comic that doesn't focus on some dude wearing his underwear on the outside of his pants.

All of which is to say, SMonkey, that i get what you mean and see how others can view it that way, but i think there's more to the series than that and agree with you on the good ideas in there.

- Abyss, thankfully grew out of that underwear on the outside fashion stage.

I will agree with Abyss here....and add that I wonder if it isn't that it isn't a matter of growing up and thinking it juvenile, but rather that you grew up and the adult you cannot accept it anymore. Kind of like Santa Claus. I grew up, and the ideal of the Christmas Man is only modified from my first belief as a youngster. It's morphed into an idea...or legend if you will.

So yeah...like Abyss said...you're dead inside...

LOL

kidding of course.

[stone monkey]

I thought some of you might consider me a heretic for that. To be honest, age has given me more perspective on this; when I first read Sandman, I was encountering some of these ideas for the first time (in comic book form at least)

But I'm a decade and more older now, I've read more, lived more, seen more etc. Arguably my perspectives on the concepts and ideas has matured, maybe I've self consciously put the things of my teenage years and early twenties behind me, and the way they're handled in Sandman strikes me now, for the most part, as adolescent.

That and being dead inside.

[amphibian]

I think my biggest problem with Gaiman is that he's Emo at the core. I couldn't sit through the first ten minutes of Mirrormask. I pride myself on being tolerant and my capacity to do pretty much anything physically or mentally, but I could not get through the Emo-ness of that movie. Sandman retains appeal beyond a specific crowd.

However, I don't think the adolescence thing is unintentional. The whole point of The Sandman series is that the Endless, though having existed almost as long as the cosmos, have not grown up. The events in the series force Dream in particular to change and since he seems to be the one the others look towards, he pulls his siblings along (I discount War, because nobody followed him).

Another thing that may seem odd to the reader is that Dream does not have to compromise (much) with the real world. We humans have to give in to reality at some point; the Endless have a much greater capacity to change things to their liking. Their "point" is much further out than ours. Gaiman did a nice job of keeping his characters from anthropomorphizing too much.

[stone monkey]

Dream doesn't compromise with the real world because, like the rest of his kin, he's a definition. Dream defines both what isn't real and therefore by extension what is.

[Abyss]

amphibian;137874 said:

I think my biggest problem with Gaiman is that he's Emo at the core. I couldn't sit through the first ten minutes of Mirrormask. I pride myself on being tolerant and my capacity to do pretty much anything physically or mentally, but I could not get through the Emo-ness of that movie...

Insho, Sandman predates 'Emo' and most of what is presently considered 'Goth'. Most (not all) Emo/Goth is just a Gaiman/Rice derived rejectionism lite.

Mirrormask, while visually interesting, was a REALLY weak movie.

- Abyss, did like the face-cats tho'.

[polishgenius]

I nearly died collecting all 10 at the beginning of this year. I spent my food money on Sandman.
Worth it . I love all the intertwination. And I don't mind being beaten about the head with cleverness, I love weeding out all the little references.

That's well expensive though, for a quarter of it. It's recoloured, which may interest some people into picking it up, but otherwise, just get the trades.

[stone monkey]

The references are all pretty obvious, I find. Mainly because Gaiman generally deploys them with a metaphorical "D'ya see what I just did?" And that's what I find irritating about it.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss;138071 said:

Insho, Sandman predates 'Emo' and most of what is presently considered 'Goth'. Most (not all) Emo/Goth is just a Gaiman/Rice derived rejectionism lite.

Mirrormask, while visually interesting, was a REALLY weak movie.

- Abyss, did like the face-cats tho'.

Mirrormask is the only Gaiman item to date that I haven't liked. It had some good ideas, but overall it is a very poorly directed film, and the effects are on the "too bizarre" side to be good. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Remember that he also wrote the english language screenplay for
Princess Mononoke though...which kicked ass....and I have good thoughts about Beowulf...plus Stardust was moved to a summer tentpole movie for Paramount for summer 2007 cause they liked it so much.

[QuickTidal]

I think it should also be noted how alot of Sandman was written a while back when Gaiman himself was younger. Gaiman's writing from 10-15 years ago is not the same as say American Gods, or Anansi Boys, or even for that matter 1602 (if we are talking comics), so everyone grows and changes....and in my humble opinion he has only gotten better with age.

[Dagger]

Gaiman rarely does any wrong in my eyes. I loved American Gods and Anansi Boys, loved Sandman, loved 1602. In addition, he is the model for writers on how to be gracious in the wake of enormous success and in his treatment of fans, as opposed to say...Terry Goodkind.

[polishgenius]

Dagger;138954 said:

In addition, he is the model for writers on how to be gracious in the wake of enormous success and in his treatment of fans, as opposed to say...Terry Goodkind.

So very much this, I have to say.
It helps that he's not conned himself into thinking he's a literary genius when he's not.