[Omras Ghum]

How can Mael (being a rather nice chap as Bugg) have a bloody treacherous bastard like Mallick Rel as Jhistal??
I read somewhere on this forum that jhistal roughly translates to destriant - so i think the destriant of mael should somewhat reflect mael charcterwise... but he does not at all!
If ever he gets his elder-godly hands on Rels neck this should be fun to read, shouldn't it?

[Dolorous Menhir]

It's been mentioned several times that Mael is

a) absent/disinterested in general

neutral/ambivalent in the war against the CG.

And so his followers are left free to take whatever position they like. And they do.

[Omras Ghum]

but is he not kinda back to business at the end of MT?

[GardenGnome]

The Jhistal were a people or a cult, destroyed by the Emperor. I have never heard of the link with Destriant before...

As for Mallick Rel, I think the title of Priest is just that - a title. He uses Ruse, which is Mael's realm, but I don't think there's much of a connection beyond that.

As Dolorous pointed out, Mael doesn't like humans - the only one he really cares for is Tehol. Then again, he did help the Ceda defeat the sea demon. I guess Mael dislikes the Edur even more than humans.

[Dark Mac]

The Glossary of TBH says that a Jhistal is the Destriant of an Elder God. Kinda odd, yes, but still true.

[Dolorous Menhir]

GardenGnome;133320 said:

The Jhistal were a people or a cult, destroyed by the Emperor. I have never heard of the link with Destriant before...

Take a look at the glossary of BH if you have it handy. It wasn't mentioned in the book, but the definition of Jhistal given in the back is:

the Bonehunters glossary said:

Jhistal: a high priest of an Elder God who employs human blood in ritual magic (Elder equivalent of a Destriant)

edit: removed, Gardengnome already said it.

[GardenGnome]

So it says... Very strange, as I'm almost certain it says something entirely different in DG. Time to search!

Can't find anything in DG or HoC, I guess the only other logical place to look would be in TB. Anyway, to clarify: I somehow seem to remember the Jhistal described as either a cult or a tribe, and Mallick was the only one (of any noteworthy power, atleast) to escape Kellanved's wrath. This whole thing about Destriant is entirely new to me, and I have to admit, it's very confusing

[Aptorian]

Jhistal: a high priest of an Elder God who employs human blood in ritual magic (Elder equivalent of a Destriant)

This is old, we've been over it before, but am I the only one who wonders what the hell an elder equivelant is?

If wandering leads to holds, leads to houses, were Bugg once a holder of a ... hold? (yes he was, I say)

And when he abandoned this hold, what happened to his Destriant, Mortal Sword and Shield Anvil? in elder form?

Is Brys now his MS and would Withal, since the rescue, now be the Shield Anvil? Mallick being the Destriant and all.

[Omras Ghum]

I at least guess if Bugg/Mael has a say on the matter then Mallick will not be jhistal for much longer, will he?

I have not read TB (it's not out in german... ) but in HOC it is mentioned somewhere that Mallick went to laseen to negotiate or something... iirc

[Rahvinn]

Perhaps Jhistal is a self proclaimed title, he was rather full of himself

[tiam]

Jhistal relates to tribe of falri that was wiped out during Kellenveds campaigns i beleieve as someone has already said. It claims in the glossary that it means the equivelent to a destriant of EGs. However when pearl i think is talking to the empress with Dom and Rel he says that the Jhistal cult was wiped and Rel is one of the few suriviors. Not like Erikson to change things hey

so this means

a) Jhistal was a cult virtually wiped out

b)Jhistal is the title of destriant (which doesnt really make sense as if he was destriant he wouldnt be called the jhistal priest.)

therefore Rel is from a cult called jhistal on Falar which worshipped Mael. He is a jhistal as in from this cult and the cult likely contained a jhistal destriant simply called Jhistal. In which case Rel is a jhistal priest which makes him maybe a high priest or an aspirant to the title of destriant. However if the tribe was wiped out then maybe he is all thats left and has simply took the title

just a few thoughts

[GardenGnome]

Thank god someone else remembered that about a tribe! I started to wonder if I had dreamed the entire thing.

Anyway, this really doesn't seem to make sense, atleast not to me. I'm somehow inclined to believe the glossary is wrong, but then again, it's not just a simple misspelling...

[Dolorous Menhir]

Found the relevant quote:

The Bonehunters, on page 808, said:

"In this way," Mallick Rel said, spreading his hands, "necessity is an economic matter, yes? That an ignorant and backward people must be eradicated is sad, indeed, but alas, inevitable."

"You would know well of that," Tavore said to him. "The Gedorian Falari cult of the Jhistal was eradicated in a similar manner by Emperor Kellanved, after all. Presumably you are among the very few survivors from that time."

Mallick Rel's round, oiled face slowly drained of what little colour it had possessed.

The Adjunct continued, "A very minor note in the imperial histories, difficult to find. I believe, however, should you peruse the works of Duiker, you will find suitable references. Of course, 'minor' is a relative term, just as, I suppose, this Wickan Pogrom will be seen in later histories. For the Wickans themselves, of course, it will be anything but minor."

"Your point, woman?" Mallick Rel asked.

"It is useful, on occasion, to halt upon a path, and to turn and walk back some distance."

"Achieving what?"

"An understanding of motivations, Jhistal. It seems that this is a night of unravelling, after all. Covenants, treaties, memories-"

"This debate," the Empress cut in, "can be conducted another time...."

This seems like a good time to consider the motivations of Rel.

1) revenge against the Empire in general for the destruction of his tribe

2) revenge against the Wickans for disrupting his plan to usurp the Seven Cities

3) whatever his master wants, be it the CG or someone else entirely.

[Omras Ghum]

iirc this is the MT-part of the forum - thanks for posting BH stuff here... i haven't read the book cause it is not out in german (and have stated it above...) so this kind of spoils things for me - now i cannot even read along in this thread

[Dolorous Menhir]

Sorry, I posted a spoiler.

[GardenGnome]

I actually thought that conversation took place in DG, and then someone said it was in TB... so it's all because of a misunderstanding, really.

Anyway.

It says cult, not tribe. So, it could be that the Jhistal was some old cult, still worshipping in the old "blood" way.

[GardenGnome]

An old idea of mine resurfaced, so I'll post it here:

MT ends with Mael going to give the CG a bit of a bashing. After that, we haven't seen him. Now, I don't know what happened, but Mael either died or was enslaved by the CG, which explains his Jhistal, Mallick Rel, in reality serving the CG. Atleast, it's suggested in TB that Rer serves the CG:"[About a convergence in Malaz City this night] Mallick Rel is a participant, although the hand that guides him remains remote, unseen" (TB, p. 810). T'amber then says something about killing Rel might shift the balance and save the world - I think it's clear that the remote, unseen master is the CG. Wether he works through Mael, or Mael has been killed and usurped, remains to be seen.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Mael is still active.

His influence was felt in BH, Sister Spite said that Mael was angry about the Eres infringing on his realm while propelling Pust's boat. But he could not stop the Eres. No-one is arguing that these events predate the end of MT.

So Mael is definitely not dead or gone. He's probably just lying low somewhere with Tehol, having a good time.

[GardenGnome]

Damn, here I was trying to get some explanation on the Jhistal :- Thanks for clearing that up.