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I've heard of that one before. Makes sense.
Creation Vs Evolution
#242
Cause 
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Posted 06 November 2006 - 10:23 AM
Rope you are of course correct. Its not definitive. Its not even been properly researched yet. However the point of the article is that if it turns out to be true than it will be a munumental discovery. It added to the other evidence for evolution will strenghten the theory
#243 Guest_Chewy_*
Posted 07 November 2006 - 03:20 AM
Dolorous Menhir;129767 said:
That's not true Chewy. Drawing an equivalence between evolution & creation proponents is a central creationist strategy, but it is a falsehood. Evolution backers (educated ones) have the backing of science and the scientific community. Creationists do not.
I can't emphasise enough, they are not two opposing camps of ideologues blindly pushing their own prejudices. The fact that creationists are reduced to this line of attack at all ("they're just as bad as we are!") is clear evidence of how weak their position is. They can't assail the facts, so they attack motivations.
I can't emphasise enough, they are not two opposing camps of ideologues blindly pushing their own prejudices. The fact that creationists are reduced to this line of attack at all ("they're just as bad as we are!") is clear evidence of how weak their position is. They can't assail the facts, so they attack motivations.
I was hoping I wouldn't see that happening. I was hoping for an answer based on facts. I have seen very few facts presented in this whole discussion. Only conclusions (sometimes not challenged) based on the observations. Cause presented a number of evidences proposed in support of evolution. I question one at a time. I see no answers yet. I am awaiting response regarding the fossil record and the vast differences in organisms with a lack of transitionary organisms. Where are they?
#244
Demon X
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 08:30 AM
Chewy;131910 said:
I was hoping I wouldn't see that happening. I was hoping for an answer based on facts. I have seen very few facts presented in this whole discussion. Only conclusions (sometimes not challenged) based on the observations. Cause presented a number of evidences proposed in support of evolution. I question one at a time. I see no answers yet. I am awaiting response regarding the fossil record and the vast differences in organisms with a lack of transitionary organisms. Where are they?
Now you're being pedantic!
#245
Cause
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 09:02 AM
Re-read the thread is my suggestion. You should fine whole pages to answer your question. Really to say we have not discussed the fossil record five times now already is ridiculous. And please dont question one at a time. You cant apreciate a picture looking at one piece at a time you need to see the whole.
The problem is your rightly say science is not about our authority. Yet you refuse to accept our authoriy as well as refuse to research the material your self or do the experiments.
The problem is your rightly say science is not about our authority. Yet you refuse to accept our authoriy as well as refuse to research the material your self or do the experiments.
#246
stone monkey
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 03:04 PM
The transitory organism argument is a straw man. The circumstances of fossilization means that a full fossil record is an impossibility.
Fossilization is a random process, therefore only a random selection of organisms will be fossilized - except in cases where it's definitely not random - like predator traps. A complete fossil record would not be random in any way.
Fossilization is a random process, therefore only a random selection of organisms will be fossilized - except in cases where it's definitely not random - like predator traps. A complete fossil record would not be random in any way.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. … So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants. Bertrand Russell
#247
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 03:06 PM
The greatest levels of competition exist between closely-related transitional species. So one population will quickly overwhelm the other, and evidence of the linking species will be rarer than evidence of the product species.
#248
stone monkey
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 04:04 PM
I disagree, very obviously the greatest level of competition exists between members of the same species - those individuals who want exactly the same resources as you for exactly the same reason.
There is no such thing as a transitional species...except in hindsight.
There is no such thing as a transitional species...except in hindsight.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. … So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants. Bertrand Russell
#249
dktorode
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Posted 12 November 2006 - 11:55 PM
science is science......facts are facts....even God cannot deny that 1+1 =2!!!!!
...┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐...
Why dont they make the whole plane out of that black box stuff?
Why dont they make the whole plane out of that black box stuff?
#250
Mezla PigDog
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Posted 13 November 2006 - 12:41 PM
stone monkey;131995 said:
There is no such thing as a transitional species...except in hindsight.
Technically, there is no such thing as a species either
Speciation is just a tool used by us to make sense of the constant progression of evolution. We put brackets around certain populations and call them "species X" because it is convenient. The original Darwinian definition of species as morphologically and reproductively isolated populations, that will never re-converge has moved on with the progress of genetic analysis and molecular taxonomy. Nobody knows how to delimit a species anymore, if they ever did!(Just been reading a pile of research articles on that very subject (and trying to write one!), hence my jumping into the thread without having read it all. My head hurts).
Burn rubber =/= warp speed
#251 Guest_Shlomo_*
Posted 13 November 2006 - 08:02 PM
The periodic table is so orderly it must have been put together by an Intelligent Designer!
#252
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Posted 13 November 2006 - 10:22 PM
Shlomo;134296 said:
The periodic table is so orderly it must have been put together by an Intelligent Designer!
No, the periodic table is a natural progression of elements from stable to unstabe and back again! Just because it's orderly doesnt mean it has been purposefully created. It all falls into the laws of physics - at least the laws we know so far. You could argue that an intelligent being created those laws when the universe was set in motion, but that is just speculation on faith that there is a "God" who created all. When it comes to that level, it's Faith V Fact; there is no evidence to prove that there is or is not a God or Gods! All we can do is look at the evidence that came before us and the physical situation of the universe now to see how its mechanics work. For most people the easy explaination is the best; hence creationisim - (and I'm sorry if I offend) it gives an easy way out for those who are too lazy to look at the facts before them.
#256
Tiste Simeon
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Posted 13 November 2006 - 11:31 PM
Shlomo said:
But was he really?
Or maybe Shlomo is Niko III in disguise?
A Haunting Poem
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
#257 Guest_Chewy_*
Posted 14 November 2006 - 06:18 AM
So far response is: The only answer I am seeing for the fossil record not supporting transitional organisms is that they are too rare. Am I right? Is this the observation?
#258
Cause
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:19 AM
Tiste Simeon;134379 said:
Or maybe Shlomo is Niko III in disguise?
funy you should so that. I was thinking about it last night
@chewy-that and it does not really matter. It wont disporve evolution
#259
stone monkey
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:00 PM
Chewy;134456 said:
So far response is: The only answer I am seeing for the fossil record not supporting transitional organisms is that they are too rare. Am I right? Is this the observation?
Actually no. You're wrong.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. … So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants. Bertrand Russell
#260
The Rope
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 12:28 AM
Cause;134466 said:
@chewy-that and it does not really matter. It wont disporve evolution
stone monkey said:
Actually no. You're wrong.
