[Dr Trouble]

I have been looking for some new stuff to read, but nothing to difficult. To be quite honest, I am a little sick of reading mind bending stuff and having to analyze it all so I can completely understand it.


I just want some fluff to read in between the kind of books I just mentioned. And Today I find out there were star wars books? I don't know how this escaped me, but I find them intriuging.

My question is, are they anygood? There are 21 of them out there, so If I buy the first, odds are I am going to buy the rest. So before I do I want some opinions on them.

If you will.

[Obdigore]

They are all done by different authors. I enjoy the storyline, although some of the books are not written that well. (I have only read about 9 of them, could not bring myself to read any more)

If you want something fun, buy the Complete Hitchhikers Guide series... all 5 books. (Was it 5 or 6?)

[Dr Trouble]

Obdigore;118342 said:

They are all done by different authors. I enjoy the storyline, although some of the books are not written that well. (I have only read about 9 of them, could not bring myself to read any more)

If you want something fun, buy the Complete Hitchhikers Guide series... all 5 books. (Was it 5 or 6?)

I have them already. I have read them numerous times.

This is just the thing, its hard to find good fun books.

[Obdigore]

Ed Greenwood (one of the creators of D&D) wrote a series... It's just an easy action/adventure in the D&D world, but it was some good moments... (I have not read it since Erikson, and its not as good) but if you just want to sit back and enjoy a quick read, his books should do it for you.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I read one of those Jedi Order books a while ago (I outgrew Star Wars books, I like to think - used to read lots of X-wing ones with Wedge as the main character) and I hated it because (spoiler)

Spoiler

Chewie got killed off!

Put me right off.

[Obdigore]

yea.. that sucked DM.

[McLovin]

I tried the Thrawn books. I have a hard time getting into the books because it bothers me to see other people use George Lucas' characters (and yeah, I know he gives his blessing, but meh). I think if they did a series based around KOTOR or a time period long before/after the movies I would like those a lot better.

[Werthead]

First off, steer clear of Ed Greenwood. Literally one of the worst authors alive. He's good at doing D&D game stuff (he's the creator of the Forgotten Realms) but he cannot tell a story to tell his life.

As for the Star Wars books, there's a lot more than 21 of them. I think at last count there were about 100. Some of them are very good, some of them are awful and most are okay-but-a-bit-meh. The earlier books published by Bantam got a bit old very quickly, as they kept dredging up repetitive plots (usually revolving around a random superweapon of the week being deployed by a renegade Imperial admiral to destroy the New Republic). Of the Bantam books the Thrawn Trilogy is highly recommended as it is written by a proper SF author (Timothy Zahn) and captures the spirit of the movies well. The Corellian Trilogy is also okay, with some nice ideas in it. The X-Wing Series is worth a look as it relegates our main heroes to the role of supporting guest cast and introduces a new regular cast led by Wedge Antilles. Some of these books are pretty good and the new characters are worthwhile.

The New Jedi Order, published by Lucas Books, is a much more original and interesting project. This series consists of 16 books divided into several lesser trilogies and duologies and single books. The theme of this series is that 20 years after Return of the Jedi the Star Wars galaxy is invaded by an incredibly aggressive and powerful species known as the Yuuzhan Vong (no laughing at the back). Wielding organic technology, the Vong are strangely immune to the Force. Aware that they do not have enough troops to conquer the entire galaxy, the Vong only secure important worlds, obliterating others with their powerful gravity-based weapons, and direct their forces to destroying the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant to become the dominant force in the galaxy. Several characters from the films (including one of the 'big ones') die during the course of the books, and several major characters established in the Bantam novels also buy the farm. The NJO is much darker and much grittier than anything seen before in the Star Wars universe.

The books are reasonably entertaining and more consistent than the Bantam novels. Only one is really bad - Elaine Cunningham's Dark Journey - and most are above average. The series is worth reading for two books: Star by Star by Troy Denning (since RA Salvatore lost the plot, the Forgotten Realms' best author and snapped up to write Star Wars books and even become one of the directors of the line), which will have your jaw buried somewhere in the ground.

Spoiler

The battle for Coruscant is insane and the fact that the Vong win even more so. And there's the second-biggest death of the series as well.

The other reason for reading the NJO is Traitor by 'proper' SF and fantasy author Matt Stover. Traitor is the best piece of Star Wars in existence aside from Empire Strikes Back and A New Hope, bar none. It's very different (a psychological thriller of sorts), addresses the question of the Force in a way that's genuinely intriguing and not boring with cod-philosophical ramblings, and has the best lightsabre scene in any of the books. Simply excellent.

There have been two series set after the NJO, the Dark Nest Trilogy and now the Legacy of the Force series, neither of which I've read, but both have gotten good reviews.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

So according to Lucas, is what happens in these books factual, as far as the star wars universe is concerned? For example, if Luke dies of a nasty case of space syphillis, does Lucas acknowledge that this is now star wars "reality," or does he hold to a "this could be what happened, but might not really be what happens" line of reasoning? If he ever did make the last 3 movies, which I know he says he will not, would he hold to what happened in the books? Sorry if this is a confusing post.

[Werthead]

The Expanded Universe works on the basis that Lucas approves everything. He doesn't read every book or comic, but he has to sign off on novel or comic storylines. He directly influenced the NJO by telling them what characters they couldn't kill off (the 'Big Three' had to survive but everyone else was fair game) and nixed the idea of the Vong being Dark Side users, for example.
The short rule is: it happens until Lucas says it doesn't in a movie. Since the movies are finished, that's not a problem any more.

Lucas does acknowledge the Expanded Universe. Coruscant, for example, was originally named in the 1991 novel Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn, and Lucas agreed to keep the name for the prequel movies. The assassin who dies at the start of Attack of the Clones originated in a post-Phantom Menace novel. Some stuff he did change and overrule, but it's interesting how few of the novels' concepts have been invalidated by the prequel films. The history of the Death Star Project has become a bit convoluted, but still works (just).

With the conclusion of the prequel movies, I understand that the distinction between the movie canon and the Expanded Universe is going to become a bit less artificial. It will remain whilst the new TV series is on the air, but Lucas has said that the TV series will not feature established characters (aside from possible cameos), so that shouldn't impact the novel continuity much.

[Brahm_K]

I did start to read The New Jedi Order while going through my Star Wars book phase (about five years ago). I got as far as book 6 or 7 or something. I remember that the books were pretty good, and I was definitely pleased with the fact that major character(s) were dying; however, I either got out of the Star Wars reading phase or realized that there were still 13-15 more or whatever and couldn't really be bothered. So, if you're a Star Wars book fan and are willing to read all 21, then it should be the nice, mindless fluff you're looking for.

[No-God]

As far as Star Wars books go, the series with Grand Admiral Thrawn was excellent, as was the series involving some renegade fleet Admiral Zjisni (or something). I enjoyed that one. Might have been the X-Wing series.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Werthead;118524 said:

With the conclusion of the prequel movies, I understand that the distinction between the movie canon and the Expanded Universe is going to become a bit less artificial. It will remain whilst the new TV series is on the air, but Lucas has said that the TV series will not feature established characters (aside from possible cameos), so that shouldn't impact the novel continuity much.

Not to sound totally ignorant, but there's going to be a star wars tv series? I didn't know that. When is it coming on? Starring anyone important?

Also, I'd like to hear more about the convoluted death star history, if you feel like explaining any of it. I haven't read any of the star wars books.

[Morgoth]

skipp all the star wars nonsens and read Star Trek books by the multitalented genious and hopefully next president of the US, William Shatner

[Werthead]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;118544 said:

Not to sound totally ignorant, but there's going to be a star wars tv series? I didn't know that. When is it coming on? Starring anyone important?

Also, I'd like to hear more about the convoluted death star history, if you feel like explaining any of it. I haven't read any of the star wars books.

Really? The Star Wars TV series will follow a similar format to the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. There will be 100 episodes and five seasons. The TV series starts immediately after Revenge of the Sith ends and concludes just before A New Hope begins. The series will partially focus on the antics of some bounty hunters. Boba Fett, Yoda and Darth Vader may have brief cameos, but no-one else from the movies will be in it (probably). Rick McCallum will produce along with an established 'name' (rumoured to be J. Michael Straczynski of Babylon 5 fame, but he's already said no), possibly Kevin Smith. George Lucas will write and possibly direct the pilot but otherwise will have limited involvement in the series. The series is expected to start shooting in early 2007 for airing possibly in late 2007 or more likely sometime in 2008.

That's about all that is known at the moment.

As for the Death Star thing, it's too complicated to go into more than briefly: Basically, the novel Rogue Planet states that Raif Sienar and Tarkin designed the Death Star, and that later The Jedi Academy Trilogy confirms that a prototype was built by Tarkin and hidden in a region called the Maw before work on the proper Death Star I began. This conflicts with the movies, in which the Geonosians built the Death Star and there was no prototype, with the Death Star seen at the end of Revenge of the Sith being the 'proper' Death Star I (confirmed by Lucas). Thus, it takes 20 years to build the first Death Star. This of course is odd because the Death Star II seen in Return of the Jedi, which depending on the source is between 20% and 500% bigger (seriously) than the Death Star I, was only built in two-and-a-bit years.

The convoluted explanation that is now semi-official is that Sienar and Tarkin designed the Death Star, but the Geonosians were comissioned to refine the design and build it. When the Empire rose to power, the Death Star I was already under construction by the Geonosians, but the Emperor chose to halt its construction whilst a smaller prototype was built and tested. Then work resumed on the DSI a year or two before Episode IV. Variations in the explanation have the DSII beginning construction before the DSI was even completed, which is a reasonable possibility, but apparently denied by Lucas.

Star Wars canonicity and history is the very definition of the word 'fanwank', and possibly not to be troubled by too closely

[McLovin]

I was perusing the NJO series on Amazon (this thread got me curious, what can I say?) and was shocked at who is authoring some of these (Matthew Stover, Walter Jon Williams). Tempted to check the local library for these...

[Werthead]

Stover and Williams' books are pretty good, as are Greg Keyes'. Elaine Cunningham's is awful. RA Salvatore's is okay.

[McLovin]

OK, so believe it or not, somebody got me the first 3 NJO books (it was a boxed set) as a present. So I am now obligated to slog through (I have a weird thing about returning gifts, what can I say?). Read Vector Prime and Dark Tide I: Onslaught so far.

The Yuuzhan Vong being "outside the Force" is a cool idea, as is their biotechnology. But must we have yet another "evil race" whose only motivation appears to be "destruction and conquest"? There does seem to be interesting rifts developing within the New Republic and the Jedi Order that might make for more interesting situations down the line. But, after I finish Dark Tide II: Ruin, I'm not sure I'll be continuing...

[Grimlock]

Well, are they really evil? And are they really outside the Force?

I think you should continue, but you won't necessarily have to read all of them. I haven't.

Aaron Allston's books rocked by the way, but you shouldn't go right to those. Traitor is pretty important, and so, I guess you could say, are the book before that.

Anyway, I just finished the second book in the Legacy of the Force series, which is about 10 years after NJO. Some pretty interesting developments there. Oh yes, indeed...

[QuickTidal]

The Yuuzhan Vong were so entirely lame as an enemy, I gave up halfway through Vector Prime, and I refuse to read any others in the NJO series.

The only star wars book to date I liked was I, Jedi...and that is it.