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In Crazy Theories, Dolorous Menhir posed the idea that perhaps the object Gothos produced to use as a finnest was "a part of Silchas Ruin's sword", and that this piece was used by Withal in forging the sword now bound to Rhulad
I am just rereading MT and found the following passage from page 300 (trade paperback). Rhulad is laying claim to the sword infront of the Hall and the Warlock King...
"The sword is mine, Hannan Mosag! I am equal to it. You are not. Speak, then, if you would reveal to all here the secret of this weapon. Reveal the most ancient of lies!"
As we later find out the "most ancient of lies" is that Scabi is indeed stone cold dead, his bones rotting in very crevasse where Kilmandaros delivered the death blow. This would seam to prove that at least some part of the material used to create Rhulad's sword was the finnest housing Scabi's soul.
Agree, Disagree or does this still belong in the Crazy theories post?
Gothos' Finnest
#2
Folken 
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 02:25 AM
We learn about Bloodeye and his "rotting bones" much earlier in the novel. It is right before their journy begins if I recall correctly.
The Sword, and your conversation naturally occurs after the journey.
And exactly how that might prove anything...I do not understand?
The Sword, and your conversation naturally occurs after the journey.
And exactly how that might prove anything...I do not understand?
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#3
ChuckL
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 02:52 AM
Perhaps prove is to strong. Let me say that the passage supports the theory pose by DM. I am making the leap that "most ancient of Lies" is the secret of Scabi's death which the Tiste Edur Women keep and reveal only to the men who will become leaders of the Tiste Edur. If the truth about the sword is connected to this ancient lie, it must have something to do with Scabi's death. What else could it be but that the sword houses the soul of the Edur god believed to be alive and well, lurking in the shadows?
#4
Folken
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 03:01 AM
Hannon Mosag found out on his own, no one told him. Thats why Trull's mother (was it?) that told Fear and Binadass (i think) about the skull and the story.
Anyways I dont think the soul is there. Doesn't make sense that Gothos was would be walking around throwing ice all over the place, comes across a broken piece of the sword goes "ohhhh i'll take it" then puts bloodyeyes soul in it...then somehow the CG gets a hold of it, which makes even less sense and he decides to forge a sword with it...i dunno just doesn't seem plausible to me:) could be wrong...but meh
Anyways I dont think the soul is there. Doesn't make sense that Gothos was would be walking around throwing ice all over the place, comes across a broken piece of the sword goes "ohhhh i'll take it" then puts bloodyeyes soul in it...then somehow the CG gets a hold of it, which makes even less sense and he decides to forge a sword with it...i dunno just doesn't seem plausible to me:) could be wrong...but meh
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#5 Guest_Rheanar Delh\'Suhn_*
Posted 05 September 2006 - 03:43 AM
id assume that the most acient of lies for the Edur would be the betrayal of the Andii, instead of the other way round as they claim, and that the sword is simply made from the shattered remnants of Ruin. Coz in MT, Ruin does say something about why someone would want the pieces of something [maybe someone can help me out with the quote, my copy isnt handy], and i took it to mean that the CG is collecting the bits of Ruins swords to make a new sword out of.
#6
Dragnipurake
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 05:40 AM
" 'They were shattered,' the Betrayer said. 'Long ago. Fragments scattered across a battlefield. Why would anyone want them? Those broken fragments can never be reunited. They are, each and every one, now folded in on themselves. So, I wonder, what did he do with them?' "
Midnight Tides pb 131
Midnight Tides pb 131
#7
Onos
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 08:59 PM
I think there could be more hidden in that quote....
<>
Havent they been reunited? What is being rambled about here? And folded in on themselves.... whatever is meant here could be the secret to the swords power.
<
Havent they been reunited? What is being rambled about here? And folded in on themselves.... whatever is meant here could be the secret to the swords power.
#8
Onos
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:02 PM
Can someone dumb down to me what a Finnest is in the generic sense of the word? (not situation specific to say Gothos) Preferably using only facts as they exist and not additional speculation. We have seen too few of them for me to properly understand what they are. People use the term Finnest pretty losely all over these threads in all sorts of context and i have started to confuse myself what is fact and what is delusion.
#9
Obdigore
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:31 PM
Onos
I was under the impression that the Finnest was where a Jaghut would charge a large bulk of his power.... So he 'charged' it while he was fine, then if he gets in trouble, he gets that extra amount of power.
That sort of thing. I am not aware of any book references regarding anything else.
I was under the impression that the Finnest was where a Jaghut would charge a large bulk of his power.... So he 'charged' it while he was fine, then if he gets in trouble, he gets that extra amount of power.
That sort of thing. I am not aware of any book references regarding anything else.
Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.
#10 Guest_Maknavox_*
Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:54 PM
sounds plausible. In basic, a finnest is just an object infused (in some way) with great power which can be unleashed by a jaghut mage, Weather charged trough magic or through souls dos not really matter. Finnest also means "house of ice" in jaghut.
It is true that a soul lingueres within ruhlads sword. Read MT page 34
Ive said it a while back that i didnt believe Scabby was the presence at the idiotic floating isle. Im pretty sure scabby is within the sword. Though i must admit that there are sides to the story that counter my feeling.
First of all, within the sword are multiple shards, 2 i though and Gothos only took 1 object out of his sleaves.
Second, How could the CG have learned of scabby imprisoned within the sword chunks, he wasnt around and not everybody knew. How did Gothos lost scabby?. Did he just lost scabby like you loose your carkeys? Or is he in league with the CG, just like his brother?
Anyway. !Loose Ends!. But i still believe scabby is within ruhlads sword.
EDIT!
Crazy Theory 1 The finnest is mappo's unlimited storage sack
Crazy Theory 2 The finnest is Gothos his pen, and inspired him to write Gothos folly without running out of ink!
It is true that a soul lingueres within ruhlads sword. Read MT page 34
Ive said it a while back that i didnt believe Scabby was the presence at the idiotic floating isle. Im pretty sure scabby is within the sword. Though i must admit that there are sides to the story that counter my feeling.
First of all, within the sword are multiple shards, 2 i though and Gothos only took 1 object out of his sleaves.
Second, How could the CG have learned of scabby imprisoned within the sword chunks, he wasnt around and not everybody knew. How did Gothos lost scabby?. Did he just lost scabby like you loose your carkeys? Or is he in league with the CG, just like his brother?
Anyway. !Loose Ends!. But i still believe scabby is within ruhlads sword.
EDIT!
Crazy Theory 1 The finnest is mappo's unlimited storage sack
Crazy Theory 2 The finnest is Gothos his pen, and inspired him to write Gothos folly without running out of ink!
#11
Onos
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 10:48 PM
Ok simply power storage. How does the soul remain in tact in there? What happens when all the power from the soul is used up? I would take it that Scabby is well and truly dead, yet he was also supposed to suffer for a while... Stupid questions as i dont think anyone knows.
Thanks to both for the answer!
Thanks to both for the answer!
#12
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 05 September 2006 - 11:56 PM
If you are confused as to the operation of storing Scabby's soul in a Finnest, reread the near-to-last actions of Pannion in MoI.
He does exactly the same thing to his Matron.
He does exactly the same thing to his Matron.
#13
tiam
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Posted 06 September 2006 - 05:57 AM
Weve only seen 2 finnests being made (scabby and the Matrons) and only powerful Jaghut can either create one or use one. Finnests are just power repositories that anyone could use (QB MOI when hes in the keep says anyone could use the finnest). It contains a powerful magical soul that power can be drawn from like Talamandas in MOI
#14
Folken
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Posted 06 September 2006 - 12:17 PM
It's like a portable Azath a Finnest is
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#15
Jheral
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Posted 06 September 2006 - 01:19 PM
Pocket Warren! 
I wonder if the energy is finite, or if you pretty much have an unlimited source of power in a Finnest. Any thoughts?
I wonder if the energy is finite, or if you pretty much have an unlimited source of power in a Finnest. Any thoughts?
In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.
#17
Obdigore
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Posted 06 September 2006 - 01:48 PM
I would think the Finnest (if it has someone else's soul in it) is just as limited as a normal mage. They can use thier power, then they have to recharge before they can use it again. So... it depends on what your definition of limitless is. Is time a consideration?
Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.
#18
tiam
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Posted 06 September 2006 - 02:16 PM
I wouldnt say ultimate power and i dont think it would be used for recharging purpoeses. Raest in GOTM says alot of his power is stored in his Finnest so it adds power (and likely endurance to mages that use it.
I actually think that Finnests are used the same way Hannan Mossag used the Queen and prince. He simply used them to add to his power. But finnests contain a powerful magical soul so can be constantly used. I think if QB had one he could let loose (say againt Iccy then use the power of the soul.
I actually think that Finnests are used the same way Hannan Mossag used the Queen and prince. He simply used them to add to his power. But finnests contain a powerful magical soul so can be constantly used. I think if QB had one he could let loose (say againt Iccy then use the power of the soul.
#19
Abyss
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Posted 06 September 2006 - 02:21 PM
A Finnest is a storage device for the power of a particulary poweful being. It seems that Jaghut are proficient is making/using these.
In Raest's contained most of his power so that he could be bound underground. There were Jaghut involved in stopping Raest.
In MoI, the Pannion Seer, a Jaghut, used the Matron's finnest to extend his own power and cotnrol her, and through her her undead Kell Hunters.
Iirc, we have NOT seen an instance of a Finnest being relevant without the Jaghut involved somehow.
It's interesting how over time, Gothos' role is becoming more significant.
- Abyss, never did trust acorns.
In Raest's contained most of his power so that he could be bound underground. There were Jaghut involved in stopping Raest.
In MoI, the Pannion Seer, a Jaghut, used the Matron's finnest to extend his own power and cotnrol her, and through her her undead Kell Hunters.
Iirc, we have NOT seen an instance of a Finnest being relevant without the Jaghut involved somehow.
It's interesting how over time, Gothos' role is becoming more significant.
- Abyss, never did trust acorns.
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#20
BridgeBurner
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Posted 06 September 2006 - 09:25 PM
Crazy theory alert (mainly because I forgot all we know about Gothos' Folly )...
Scabby's soul is related to, or IS in, Gothos' Folly.
At least a book is something you can get from your pockets, without people thinking weird about it. And the apologetic 'I can only make them from those' fits too...
It was a book, right?
)...Scabby's soul is related to, or IS in, Gothos' Folly.
At least a book is something you can get from your pockets, without people thinking weird about it. And the apologetic 'I can only make them from those' fits too...
It was a book, right?
