[Onos]

What is our take on the KChain sorcery being Chaos based? If i didnt know about modern concepts like Gravity and electromagnetism the quote used feels very chaosy.... Order is stagnation and holding things together and Chaos rips things apart. (or the quote could just be a desciption of science from an arcahaic perspective)

[JAGHUT JIM]

Sound manipulation could possibly be used as a technological tool, rather than as magic as i've read theories on the Incan Empire using sound to move very heavy blocks for their temples. As SE is an anthropologist/archaeologist he might just be using the incans (theoretical) technology as another part of his books.

[Abyss]

Do we have any firm link between Chaos and the KC/KN? Because as far as i can recall, the only link is via the CG and the Seer's pet matron, which doesn't count towards the race themselves.

Now, we do know of the Matrons' death spell that somehow caused Mommy D to be vulnerable to Chaos, but perhaps that's more function than foundation?

- Abyss, aspected to filet mignon and a nice shiraz shortly.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ganath said the KCCM were Chaos-aspected/worshippers and the KCNR were more Order-y, as she lay dying.

[Dark Mac]

Indeed, and that quote about the KCCM being Chaos-y is a large part of the reason I think that the Chaos chasing MD's Wagon is the Matron's death spell.

[JAGHUT JIM]

Right to get back on track and answer the original question, p574 bh Spite is talking to Mappo about Ganaths death: "A murder. There are godless ones walking the sands of Seven Cities once again." Unless Spite is mistaken then it shows that the KCCM were'nt believers.

[Abyss]

Good catch, but at most we could take that as a ref to the KN, not the KC, non?

- Abyss, godful.

[JAGHUT JIM]

Yeah, now, i'd have to agree. From what we've seen and heard about the 2 reptilien races it'd be silly to say they share many characteristics other than physically.

[Morgoth]

hm.. I thought the general consensus was that KC magic was aspected to gravity.. Gothos with the later added info of tBH pretty much proved that I'd say

[Kage-za]

JAGHUT JIM said:

Yeah, now, i'd have to agree. From what we've seen and heard about the 2 reptilien races it'd be silly to say they share many characteristics other than physically.

So the concensus is that the relationship between the KCCM and the KCN is more akin to the Tistes than say, being Dal Honese vs. Falari?

[Aptorian]

I would think it was worse. There were different groups of andi and edur spread across the world and not all of them seemed to want to fight each other pr at least kept out of each others way.

We've heard nothing like that about the KN and the KC, The KN seemed intent on wiping out the KC for good... and I'm guessing that when the going got rough the KC harbored the same opinion.

[Wry]

I was watching a doc about bees and wasps and all i could think was che'maille and naruk!

See first there was wasps, who were individualists and very aggressive. They were superb predators. some wasps evolved into bees, they developed hive commuinity and started to produce specialised units for different jobs. and they've a queen. whereas every wasp is it's own queen so to speak.

Makes me wonder who the hornets will be...

[Abyss]

The point seemed pretty clear in MoI that the KN were an offshoot race of KC, after all the KC matrons did recreate them. Assuming we believe Kallor. which we probably shouldn't.

But even at the MT prologue, KN and KC were both fighting the Tiste Andii/Edur army.

- Abyss, wishes we could all just get along.

[Dolorous Menhir]

My understanding was that the KN were evolutionary precursors of the KC, extinct.

The KC used some technological technique to recreate the vanished KN as slaves, setting the scene for the later rebellion.