[GardenGnome]

Abyss, we've been theorizing on this before, no way to say for sure either way. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Dol Men: Kaschan made me think Rashan... but I doubt there's any connection.

[Cedeos]

This does counter the theory of K'rul creating the warren for the destroyed continent. In the prologue of MoI it is said that the Imperial Warren was created solely for this purpose by the three Elder Gods.

[Abyss]

Is that the actual quote, or a parpharse, because i though, vague recall without book handy, that Krul said he would take the damaged continent into himself, not that he was fashioning a specific warren for it. And even then, that doesn't preclude him taking the presumably deserted KC warren and doing something new with it.

- Abyss, now THAT's a reno.

[vaiski]

It's a quote;
"They merged their power to draw chains around a continent of slaughter, then pulled it into a warren created for that sole purpose, leaving the land itself bared."

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think there is a plausible connection though - Kallor is believed to have destroyed his empire with an unknown KCCM artifact (at least this is the prevalent theory). So it seems natural that the continent devastated by KCCM tech/magic would be "folded into" the already barren KCCM warren.

Sound reasonable?

[Abyss]

Dol'Men - Good point. Tho' now i'm all suspicious at the use of the word 'chains' there.

It's always been possible QB was just wrong. SE has misdirected us before.
The KC aren't from the Malaz World, so there's no need to assume they use 'warrens' in the same context as the mages and gods of that world.

But also, there are various refs thru the books of other presences in the Impy Warren, some of whom left tail-trails in the ashes. So maybe the KC/KN have been active there for a while.

- Abyss, gives HUGE props to Vaiski for the quote without even the slightest flicker of the Vaiski-signal.

[Onos]

I thought Kchain = Imperial, but now really am thinking they dont need warrens. The Kchain are quite alien, the matrons were the sole sour of magic, and they dominated the EGs, who are all about magic. Is there any evidence the Short tails even use magic? Also really curious about where the Kchain originally came from.... but there isnt much info on that.

[Dolorous Menhir]

It's stated in an early book (I forget where) that KCCM magic was gravity-aspected, and in MT we see Kaschan sorcery in the Edur holy place (the Dark Bowl, something like that).

It's unconfirmed how much they used tech and how much they used magic.

Also - we know the Matrons used magic, they were kind of a conduit for the whole power of their brood. Larger population = more powerful Matron. So that was definitely magic. Pannion drew on the sorcerous power of his Matron, unless I am greatly mistaken.

[Onos]

Kaschan sorcery? Hmmm will have to add that to the list of things to pay special attention to on the next reread.
Gravity Aspected: More Hmmm.... in that they control gravity, hence they have a means to propel their flying keeps. I still find the keeps being kept in the air due to magic much more appealing than being ALL about science.

[JAGHUT JIM]

I always thought that the kccm's sorcery was sound oriented? Altho i might have just seen that on the forum as a theory...

[Dolorous Menhir]

No, when the Binadas and Trull are talking about Kaschan sorcery they do discuss sound, I'm fairly sure. But the gravity quote from earlier still stands also.

[vaiski]

The quote:
"Kaschan sorcery is born of sounds our ears cannot hear, formed into words that loosen the bindings that hold all matter together, that hold it to the ground. Sounds that bend and stretch light, as a tidal inflow up a river is drawn apart at the moment of turning."
(MT TB, p.92)

[Kage-za]

vaiski said:

The quote:
"Kaschan sorcery is born of sounds our ears cannot hear, formed into words that loosen the bindings that hold all matter together, that hold it to the ground. Sounds that bend and stretch light, as a tidal inflow up a river is drawn apart at the moment of turning."
(MT TB, p.92)

Fear is not necessarily a reliable source on what is actually going on. His information is second-hand to begin with, and from the way K'Chain has become Kaschan (and K'rul is our source on K'Chain), I think it's very possible that the Edur's understanding is incomplete. Not that it is patently untrue... but rather just simplified.

As described, Kaschan "sorcery" could easily be created by technological or mechanical means. I still think the KC are something alien to everything else we know in Wu.

[Cedeos]

KCCM sorcery being solely technology and/or mechanics somehow feels wrong.
Just remember the communiction devices in GotM used by WJ and Dujek, likely of KCCM origin, more or less just bones and copperwire. The description made me more think of a toy I played with as a child than of an advanced technological device ...

[Dolorous Menhir]

potsherds said:

Thanks Vaiski! :wave:

Ok, so this quote irks me, since 'the bindings that hold all matter together' would more accurately be the electromagnetic force. Everything else is certainly most likely to mean gravity though, so I'm guessing SE just isn't aware of the relative strengths of the 4 physical forces.
So I guess I'm convinced. And I think its derned strange to give a race the aspect of gravity. It just doesn't really fit, imo.

KCCM buily the Sky Keeps. It seems natural a race aspected to gravity are capable of counteracting it.

Can't provide gravity-aspect quote at moment, separated from books, sorry. Vaiski didn't provide it, which has me worried...

[Demon X]

Was just thinking - remember the ancient Gods that one of the beddict brothers (I can remember the name off-hand) saw etched into the Dolmen under the sea? Could they be old K'Chain Gods?

Just a thought!

[Thelomen Toblakai]

Its was Brys Beddict. And were those Gods not only gods in some way aspected to sea or water?