[Aimless]

Skis, roller-skis, and bicycles.

I was reading "On Thud and Blunder" the other day, and found myself annoyed by some comments about how far and how easily regular people "should" be able to travel, in fantasy. Today, an encounter with some articles on skiing soldiers made me realise that feet and beasts of burden aren't the only way for people to get about.

Is there any reason why so few people use skis in fantasy, despite there being no shortage of snow? Why can't people use roller-skis or kickbikes in places with paved or at least flat roads? Are there any good reasons why there can't be any bicycles in a vaguely medieval fantasy?

Bikes and other geared, pedal-griven vehicles could do amazing things for a world, both for regular people, and for soldiers, merchants, etc.
Fairly easy to build, easy to master, easy to maintain... way more sensible than a damn' horse. It's not a very difficult concept, and I'd like to see it in some major fantasy (I seem to recall a vague mention of something bike-like in SOME fantasy novel, but I dunno which).

Or, at the least, some other ways of getting around that don't require animals, magic, etc.

How 'bout you?

Links:

http://en.wikipedia....story_of_skiing

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Roller_ski

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickbike

http://en.wikipedia....Bicycle#History

http://en.wikipedia....owered_vehicles

http://www.sfwa.org/writing/thud.htm

[Valgard]

The problem is that most fantasy world are based on medieval times where that level of tech didn't exist. Also for skis roller skis etc. you need very well paved flat areas with out holes mud rocks jutting out etc. this is why those are ineffectual. Bicycles are the same only off road bikes work well on the rutted surface also you can't fight from the back of a bicycle like you can from a horse it isn't as stable you can swing from it or use a lance et. so it would be useless for soldiers also you can fit less gear on one than on a horse.

Skis I agree should appear more often they only don't because only the vikings skied originally and even then they weren't that good not compared to modern skiers.

So the main reason why there is not this level of transport available is that the setting medieval europe does not support it as most of them require extremely good roads to be used effectively.

Transport to see in fantasy is the kind of giant strider creatures in morrowind or even using giant gas creatures as zeppelins etc that would be good.

[Aimless]

But then again, in medieval times, you didn't exactly have magic either just because a fantasy is in a medieval setting doesn't mean it has to match medieval europe in every way. In fact, most medieval fantasies DON'T match medieval Europe THAT well :bulb:

Good skis were in use several hundred years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sk...story_of_skiing

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Vasaloppet

Good paving isn't that uncommon, especially in cities. Esp. in palaces etc

And who cares about fighting? There's more to life than fighting. Delivering messages, milk, whatever. The disadvantages of low-tech bikes would be made up for by the advantages of low cost, easy maintenance, ease of mastery, etc. Horses aren't like living cars with legs--they're a lot of work and often just not worth it except for elite warriors.

If you can have wagons rolling about, then bikes should be even easier. Shock-absorption would be a problem, without vulcanized rubber and stuff, so I'm trying to think of ways to make the ride smoother, perhaps with springy bamboo wheels or something.

[Illuyankas]

Gliders, personally. There aren't enough stories with gliders used in geothermal areas to get around by abusing the thermals.

[Aimless]

Yes, fantasy def. needs more gliders. And hot-air balloons!

http://www.malazanem...hread.php?t=368

[Valgard]

Yeah I have read Mieville and loved the dirigibles, but it is set in a much later stage of history i.e. the industrial revolution so tech is more widespread.

Aimless for that kind of thing you need to read some source books for high magic settings fo D&D as they have loads of examples of magic transport e.g. gliders and other such things, cars even driven by magic elevators etc.

The skis that are useful for travelling are cross country skis but these cannot go up hills easily (they require seal skins strung across the underside of the ski) and if there were wheels it would be impossible to travel across a hill range. Also most cities of the time had no paving on the streets and were mostly muddy tracks etc. it is only much later on that paved street became the norm.

Bikes are possible but not so practicle for many as they can't carry the same loads a horse can and carts are better also a bike is more likely to break down, than the horse, with the technology they would use to build it. For small items they would be great but they would be expensive as to get the metal etc. needed for them it would cost quite a lot to have that. Also what metal as it needs to be strong flexible rust proff etc. I think that their would be easier things for them to have than bikes.

[Abyss]

The point made above about roads is key. Wheeled transport is not effective without good roads. It was part of the reason the roman empire made roads a priority, not just so soldiers and cavalry could move quickly, but so carts of supplies could follow.

In the 'old west' there was of course the stage coach, and medieval europe had the carriage. These are basically just big carts with enough horses to keep them moving even on less than ideal surfaces (ie: unpaved roads).

Skis and snowshoes have been around for thousands of years, but there are not an abudance of fantasy settings that focus on uncivilized cold weather settings. Still, the idea is out there for use.

Enviroment is also a factor. Weis/Hickman in the DeathGate series had a jungle world where people used massive spiders, a water world where they used big bubbles, and an 'air-world' with of course the flying ships that have been around in fantasy lit forever (I liked Brooks solar-powered version of these). Mieville in The Scar made an entire city of boats and rafts and junk, and it's just brilliant. Turtledove, in the (tedious, boring, imnsho) Darkness series, has 'ley-line' trains that follow invisible lines of power around the continent. He also has icebergs used as aircraft carriers.

So, as i see it, it can take an author to come up with an original setting, before they can posit an original means of transport, but sometimes it just takes an original spin on an old idea.

- Abyss, is waiting for a fantasy lit version of skateboards.

[Aimless]

Valgard said:

Aimless for that kind of thing you need to read some source books for high magic settings fo D&D as they have loads of examples of magic transport e.g. gliders and other such things, cars even driven by magic elevators etc.

Why? What I'm looking at is NON-magical transport, and gliders and balloons don't have to be magical Of course, they might not be used as regular transport but they'd be cool to see as one-off things

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The skis that are useful for travelling are cross country skis but these cannot go up hills easily (they require seal skins strung across the underside of the ski) and if there were wheels it would be impossible to travel across a hill range. Also most cities of the time had no paving on the streets and were mostly muddy tracks etc. it is only much later on that paved street became the norm.

Yes, historically, but I see no dramatic shortage of paved cities in fantasy, and I see no reason for a shortage of roads either. C'mon, if the Romans managed roadbuilding, well...

Re. hills, why would a mode of transport have to be able to go from roads to the alps? Why would you demand that level of flexibility? If you live in a flat place with pretty good roads, then what does it matter if your skis can't go on hills?

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Bikes are possible but not so practicle for many as they can't carry the same loads a horse can and carts are better also a bike is more likely to break down, than the horse, with the technology they would use to build it.

I don't know about that... horses take time to grow, to train, costs money to feed and house and care for. Horses aren't landrovers or something, and if you want to talk about medieval times, I don't see too many people in medieval times having

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For small items they would be great but they would be expensive as to get the metal etc. needed for them it would cost quite a lot to have that. Also what metal as it needs to be strong flexible rust proff etc. I think that their would be easier things for them to have than bikes.

More expensive than getting and maintaining a horse? Oh well, if cost is an issue then the wealthy can provide some of their staff with bikes

Bamboo and metal, how 'bout it? That lacquered stuff the Tsurani used?

A bike-like vehicle can carry a lot more than a single person, and make for easier and faster transport.

Need cooler pontoon bridges and cities, and bailey-bridges!

[Cause]

No problem for bikes. I have put some consideration into this idea before. But as people have said bikes fail off road. And most fantasy goes of the road at some point. slay the dragon in its cave, cut time through the jungle of doom, go through shelobs lair whatever. And your idea for a low tech bike so far from my perspective seem a little ludicrous. Bamboo on bikes, why?

Other things you dont often see
Stilts, used to cross rivers canals swamps
Ice skates, go way back in time
ice yachting, way back in time

[Illuyankas]

Land yachts, an idea good for roads and plains.

[Aimless]

Omg, I just searched for bamboo bikes

http://www.americanbamboo.org/GeneralInfoP...booBicycle.html

http://www.bmeres.com/bambooframe.htm

http://en.wikipedia....:Bamboobike.jpg

!!