[tiam]

Not summoned so to speak but he was brought into being because he was needed. I dont mean like from birth but an adjudicator was needed and therefore summoned into being. Sorry for the confusion but im going off what MOI says

[Sir Thursday]

I always wondered exactly what made Paran into the MotD...Azath-based interference, or is it merely a natural phenomenon? Granted, it happened because it was needed, but who/what facilitated his elevation to MotD?

Sir Thursday

[Abyss]

Supposedly his proximity to Tattersail had something to do with it.

- Abyss, not quite sure 'proximity' is what they called it, but this is a family forum..

[BridgeBurner]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Counterpoint: my understanding is that the Crippled God was not the target of the mage circle which caused his Fall. Rather, they set up a "trap" of some kind, and the CG was the one who happened to be attracted into it and forced into the Malaz world. So you can't argue the nature of the CG by considerations of what he was called down to fight against (Kallor) because he was not specifically called down. This could be incorrect, it is my interpretation of what we have described to us about the Fall.

Do we know what those mages exactly used for bait in setting up that trap? Furthermore, what we think we already know may be proven wrong later on. We thought we knew what was going on at Pale too, before MoI. But as you say, it's a matter of interpretation...

Dolorous Menhir said:

Plus I don't buy "war" as an elemental force, any more than "peace". Love, life, death, these are different from "war" in a way I'm not really up to describing right now.

I think you got me a bit wrong there. Which is my fault, for using the word 'War', while thinking of the concept behind it. What I meant here was 'Conflict' being an elemental force. War basically is conflict to the extreme. And you are right, 'peace' has nothing to do with this at all. Peace is also not an opposite to war as long as there is violence like there is on Wu in general. It's merely a restraint on it, based on mutual benefit. If you're a cynic, this could also be said about the real world, actually.

Dolorous Menhir said:

And I agree with you, I think the House of War is an attempt to counter the new presence of HHChains in the Deck - all elements in the Deck (apart from Unaligned) seem to have a counterbalance of some kind...and I'm not seeing a High House Freedom on the horizon. Notably, HHWar is made up of forces marshalled by K'rul and the other Elder Gods, who are very much in opposition to the CG.

I disagree on the last part, since I don't think T&F, the BridgeBurners and Trake were marshalled/directed into their roles by the Elder Gods like Silverfox was.

Also, not all Houses in the Deck have a counterpart. If Light opposes Dark, then what opposes Shadow? Even though all 3 are based on Elder magic, their presence in the Deck shows that not all Houses necessarily have a direct counterpart. And if Conflict is an Elemental force as well, therefore a direct opponent is not a must...

[Kage-za]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Counterpoint: my understanding is that the Crippled God was not the target of the mage circle which caused his Fall. Rather, they set up a "trap" of some kind, and the CG was the one who happened to be attracted into it and forced into the Malaz world. So you can't argue the nature of the CG by considerations of what he was called down to fight against (Kallor) because he was not specifically called down. This could be incorrect, it is my interpretation of what we have described to us about the Fall.

In retrospect does this not seem to be the stupidest trap of all time? A bunch of mages are pissed off at Kallor so they open a big hole in the sky over his empire, put some sort of shiny object up there and hope something big and nasty comes for a closer look and falls through, conveniently landing on Kallor's head.

The misuse of force in bringing down the CG may be intended as some sort of commentary on war, wmds and unintended long-term consequences, but I'd be more impressed if it wasn't a Wile E. Coyote scheme in the first place.

[Illuyankas]

I'm pretty sure that the whole 'being ripped to pieces and driven insane while causing the destruction of a continent by falling spleen fragment' was an accident. They weren't commiting suicide on purpose, you know. Well, they might have been, but they didn't mean to destroy the people they were trying to save in the process.

[Dark Mac]

Kage-za said:

In retrospect does this not seem to be the stupidest trap of all time? A bunch of mages are pissed off at Kallor so they open a big hole in the sky over his empire, put some sort of shiny object up there and hope something big and nasty comes for a closer look and falls through, conveniently landing on Kallor's head.

And it would've...if it had landed on the right continent.

How the **** do you miss a ****ing continent, anyway?

[Illuyankas]

By summoning the deity as you intended, intact, able, and ready to sweep the forces of Kallor back from Korel, and further. Something went slightly wrong.

[tiam]

BridgeBurner said:

Do we know what those mages exactly used for bait in setting up that trap? Furthermore, what we think we already know may be proven wrong later on. We thought we knew what was going on at Pale too, before MoI. But as you say, it's a matter of interpretation...




I think you got me a bit wrong there. Which is my fault, for using the word 'War', while thinking of the concept behind it. What I meant here was 'Conflict' being an elemental force. War basically is conflict to the extreme. And you are right, 'peace' has nothing to do with this at all. Peace is also not an opposite to war as long as there is violence like there is on Wu in general. It's merely a restraint on it, based on mutual benefit. If you're a cynic, this could also be said about the real world, actually.



I disagree on the last part, since I don't think T&F, the BridgeBurners and Trake were marshalled/directed into their roles by the Elder Gods like Silverfox was.

Also, not all Houses in the Deck have a counterpart. If Light opposes Dark, then what opposes Shadow? Even though all 3 are based on Elder magic, their presence in the Deck shows that not all Houses necessarily have a direct counterpart. And if Conflict is an Elemental force as well, therefore a direct opponent is not a must...

As for what the mages used to lure the CG to the realm i think they did what the Ceda did. Someone described them as 8 mighty sorcerers so likely they channeled there energy together to lure a foreign being of power. The CG was in a war with his own realms gods so saw a chance for power (like the sea demon was lured to the source of power the Ceda presented) and went for it. Likely it went wrong as i find it hard to see why they would destroy themselves. So there ritual went wrong and destroyed them

[Kage-za]

I think the summoning of the CG is obviously a warning/commentary on why mortals should be careful when dealing with powers vastly beyond their control and understanding. The conceit of the summoners that they could guide the forces they unleashed lead directly to their destruction, and the current war in the pantheon. This is the counterpoint to Paran's "Don't mess with mortals" admonition to the gods. They are gods for a reason.

Um. I do not think they indended for the anvil to land on their own heads. Nevertheless, it was still a very short-sighted plan.

[tiam]

Yeh like summoners (aka Tayshcrenn) can sumon really powerful demons and still have a measure of control like the galayna lord. So 8 really good high mages would think they could lure an incredibly powerful dempon doen tyo sdestroy kallor but instead they brought a god down kicking and screaming

[4092]

BACK ON TOPIC:

Somebody tell me if i'm dreaming this up, but i recall there being a passage saying that "Though rumour has it that Apsalar the imass was spotted near Daurjhistan 50 years past."

[tiam]

yeh mentioned that a few pages back. sorry to deviate

[4092]

tiam;106322 said:

yeh mentioned that a few pages back. sorry to deviate

Sorry didn't catch it... It was quite a mess of a discussion back there lol XD