[Aptorian]

This is getting a bit off-topic now, but I wonder what effect it has that there's supposed to be other DoD's out there.

Is this something that SE forgot that was hinted at or is Paran unknowingly missing important developments around the world? I don't think the decks refered to is the so called deck of the holds.

I would like to know the difference between the one we've heard used and other ones.

[Chance]

The DoD is probably radically diffrent in the more isolated cultures...assail...etc...

Look in MT at their tiles...which in a way was there DoD...

Depending on what gods/ascendants a culture accepts/worship/belive in I guess you would end up with diffrent DoD:s or equivalents...

[Dolorous Menhir]

Other DoD's?

[stone monkey]

The Holds became the Houses -some of them at least - so you can say that they both are and aren't the same thing. Lether's tiles were the Holds only because of the preserving effects of Gothos' ice. Without that they'd have turned/grown into the Houses.

Apsalar the Imass has to be pre-Ritual as the post-Ritual Imass can't Ascend (I'm not sure of the provenance of that, but I definitely recall reading it somewhere). Given how fond of archetypes SE is (Ascendency seems to include the individual personifying an archetype - at least in part) so perhaps the thing that the original Apsalar stole is fire...And that's why she's worshipped. Imass civilisation began with the theft of the thing that defines them. Tellann.

Footprints and veils are both about being unseen which is as valuable an attribute for a thief as it is for an assassin.

[Dolorous Menhir]

stone monkey said:

Apsalar the Imass has to be pre-Ritual as the post-Ritual Imass can't Ascend (I'm not sure of the provenance of that, but I definitely recall reading it somewhere). Given how fond of archetypes SE is (Ascendency seems to include the individual personifying an archetype - at least in part) so perhaps the thing that the original Apsalar stole is fire...And that's why she's worshipped. Imass civilisation began with the theft of the thing that defines them. Tellann.

Wow. I'd suggest putting that in the Crazy Theories, but it's really not that crazy...wish I'd thought of that.

[Aptorian]

stone monkey said:

Apsalar the Imass has to be pre-Ritual as the post-Ritual Imass can't Ascend (I'm not sure of the provenance of that, but I definitely recall reading it somewhere). Given how fond of archetypes SE is (Ascendency seems to include the individual personifying an archetype - at least in part) so perhaps the thing that the original Apsalar stole is fire...And that's why she's worshipped. Imass civilisation began with the theft of the thing that defines them. Tellann.

Wow, that would be some revelation! That's an awesome theory!

[Wry]

stone monkey said:

The Holds became the Houses -some of them at least - so you can say that they both are and aren't the same thing. Lether's tiles were the Holds only because of the preserving effects of Gothos' ice. Without that they'd have turned/grown into the Houses.

Apsalar the Imass has to be pre-Ritual as the post-Ritual Imass can't Ascend (I'm not sure of the provenance of that, but I definitely recall reading it somewhere). Given how fond of archetypes SE is (Ascendency seems to include the individual personifying an archetype - at least in part) so perhaps the thing that the original Apsalar stole is fire...And that's why she's worshipped. Imass civilisation began with the theft of the thing that defines them. Tellann.

Footprints and veils are both about being unseen which is as valuable an attribute for a thief as it is for an assassin.

Didn't it say somewhere that Olar ethil obtained fire (tellann??) after nagging one of the other dragons?

Edit: and didn't the whirlwind goddess ascend post ritual?

[Abyss]

Good point re: Dryhja, but she was heavily damaged and fell out of the ritual, was stuck under a rock by the other Imass and proceeded to gather power from passing spirits. So really, she was already ascended (as are all post-ritual Imass) and proceeded to change her aspect over a few hundred millenia or so.

But I suppose this does leave it open for a post-ritual Imass to become aspected to something other than Tellan/dust. And from what we saw of Legana Breed and Onrack, it's not impossible for an undead Imass' personality to make them something other than the usual grim, mission-focused fighting machines many of them seem to be (see: Ibra).

- Abyss, aspect-backwards.

[Dark Mac]

Being clanless seems to be important, and Legana Breed is indeed one of the three clanless Imass we know. If we meet any more, they might have just as much personality as those three.

[tiam]

also the apsalar imass isnt dead. She was seen around a century ago in Darujhistan

[Shield Anvil]

Hetan said:

I'm not sure that Ganoes is needed to approve any changes within a house , apart from the sanctioning of a new house.. we've seen positions come and go and change. Master of the Deck appears to mean that he can move freely within it and call upon whomsoever he chooses or their power. Admittedly he's still learning, but he wasn't required to sanction Baudin, and the House of War has just appeared. Did he sanction that by his unknowing blessing of the BB?

Hasn't it been said somewhere that there are a bucketload of inactive cards that arn't represented in the deck any longer because noone have occupied them for too long, and that those cards are just sleeping. Maybe it's the same for some houses so maybe the House of War didn't need any blessning cause it had already existed wheras the House of Chains is fresh?

[Dolorous Menhir]

It's only been confirmed that the Master has to sanction entire Houses. I really doubt he has anything to do with more rote tasks like the selection of a new Knight. I think the MotD only has to sanction the existence of new cards, not the people who occupy them - which is the concern of the heads of Houses only, and went on without interruption while there was no Master.

[fan_83]

the house of war should have already existed in the form of feners warren as he was worshipped as the god of war.. that would make the house existant but inactive

[Lord of Salvation]

When Ganoes was with Hedge didnt he say to him about making a card for all of them, the soldiers I mean?

[BridgeBurner]

fan_83 said:

the house of war should have already existed in the form of feners warren as he was worshipped as the god of war.. that would make the house existant but inactive

And that is triggering a thought for me...

Can War be considered an Elemental Force? If so, which Elder God is connected to it? The CG himself maybe, since he was called down to take care of a Warrior King (Kallor)?

Having a (modern) House of War to counter the CG, a House extremely more beefed up with Gods and Ascendants than other Houses, and all War-aspected, may not be as overdone as I thought it to be the case when I read TBH the last 2 times then... Maybe even the Felisin Fatter switch to passive indulgence could be explained as weakening the CG here, since she was supposed to be Shaik part 3. I thought that a weird development the 2 times I read it...

Doing a TBH reread again now, after a full reread barring MT. I'll keep an eye on this possibility.

Unless somebody else already mentioned it in the crazy theories, of course...

[Dolorous Menhir]

BridgeBurner said:

Can War be considered an Elemental Force? If so, which Elder God is connected to it? The CG himself maybe, since he was called down to take care of a Warrior King (Kallor)?

Counterpoint: my understanding is that the Crippled God was not the target of the mage circle which caused his Fall. Rather, they set up a "trap" of some kind, and the CG was the one who happened to be attracted into it and forced into the Malaz world. So you can't argue the nature of the CG by considerations of what he was called down to fight against (Kallor) because he was not specifically called down. This could be incorrect, it is my interpretation of what we have described to us about the Fall.

Plus I don't buy "war" as an elemental force, any more than "peace". Love, life, death, these are different from "war" in a way I'm not really up to describing right now.

And I agree with you, I think the House of War is an attempt to counter the new presence of HHChains in the Deck - all elements in the Deck (apart from Unaligned) seem to have a counterbalance of some kind...and I'm not seeing a High House Freedom on the horizon. Notably, HHWar is made up of forces marshalled by K'rul and the other Elder Gods, who are very much in opposition to the CG.

[tiam]

i think the house of war has been summoned like the MotD. It has been brought into being becuase it was needed. JUst a thought

[Dolorous Menhir]

"Summoned like the MotD"?

What does that mean - where was Paran "summoned" from?