[Dolorous Menhir]

I think it was a ten year absence, not two, and it came long after the first entrance to the Deadhouse. It was the ten years immediately before Laseen's coup, Dancer & Kellanved were "assassinated" upon their return from this absence, Laseen having consolidated her power during her regency.

Also Cotillion says in BH they were travelling the Azath or something along those lines, which certainly, to me, says they definitely left the mundane world. They were trying to harness the power of the Azath, safe bet that requires leaving the world of the Empire. I think Cotillion means the Azath highways that we saw Cutter and assorted people travel in DG, and also Paran using at various points to jump around continents. They seem to provide access to all warrens and worlds, and K & D certainly met the requirement for access to that network, that requirement being access to an Azath House (for them, the Deadhouse. for the people in DG it was Tremorlor, and for Paran it's any of them)

A thought - a definite link between the Azath and the Deck is Paran.

He became Master of the Deck, and this granted him full access and use of the Azath, extending even to living in the Finnest House with Raest. So mastery of the Deck implied mastery of the Azath also...

[Folken]

House of Chains MMPB - Page 774
Apsalar well into a dialouge
"...One thing I know for certain , Crokus, is that, for most of those two years Dancer and Kellavan were not in this realm"

Read on into the conversation, more on the Azath, which most of you will find interesting is revealed.

[Folken]

No the Azath can't get stronger the more it holds...clearly if it did Osserc would not have made his comment in MT about testing the Azath and the Azath would not have died. (yes...what hetan said ...lol)

The Azath, from what we have learnt in BH, control's the elemental forces. It imposes order on them, or else the comment about the "azath's control failing" would not have been made. We also know the Azath, is somehow, a living entity or it would not have died. Consider this...there is just too much power to control and thus the azath is losing control over the order it has imposed.

[madala]

To get back to the original questions ...

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Ok here's something i've been wondering about.

It was stated in one of the books that there are Azath houses to represent the various houses in the Deck of Dragons right? (i'm not too sure where it was stated).

We know of some and presume there are others ,,,

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So when Paran sanctioned the House of Chains, did a new Azath house spring up? the Finnest house maybe? (is that case was Paran living in enemy territory so to speak?) If not, then did a new space become available when the Finnest house grew, and isOk here's something i've been wondering about.

No - see other posts Finnest House = Omtose Phellack, and to contain Raest. They arise to contain nasties/tyrants/etc.

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Did the new Azath make it possible for a new house to come about, or vice versa?

Neither.

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Does this mean when an Azath dies a house ceases to be?

What happens to the elemental that it contained?

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Does this make the Master of the Deck a tool of the Azath or vice versa?

My feeling is that the Deck is separate from the Azath, although they probably both represent the same underlying "reality". Somewhere, and between somebodies, there is a conversation to the effect that the entity who made the Deck is now ashes (and we both know who that was) as the teasing addendum. I don;t however think that the Azath were made?

[madala]

Oops. apologies for the crappy formatting

[Dolorous Menhir]

madala said:

My feeling is that the Deck is separate from the Azath, although they probably both represent the same underlying "reality". Somewhere, and between somebodies, there is a conversation to the effect that the entity who made the Deck is now ashes (and we both know who that was) as the teasing addendum. I don;t however think that the Azath were made?

I don't know - who was the creator of the Deck? And I think the Azath and the Deck are definitely related, for the reasons given above.

To fix your format, edit your post and remove the "un" from each end quote.

All you need to enter is [ Quote=whoever ] at the start and [ /Quote] at the end, obviously without the spaces.

edit: so, what Hetan said...

[madala]

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I don't know - who was the creator of the Deck? And I think the Azath and the Deck are definitely related, for the reasons given above.

Thanks Hetan, Dolorous.

Here's what I think. The Azath are both portals between worlds and containment mechanisms for unbridled power. They are also rumoured to contain the lost elementals, so presumably they are finite in number. Whatever, they are magical and trans-dimensional. They are I think a part of the underlying reality of the "worlds".

The Deck I think is more of a divining tool, a set of runes that can be tossed to divine the state of play - and in particular - on Wu. It is more finely grained than the Azath having several positions for each House. I really need to dig out the ref to the Deck having been made... before I waffle too much

[Wry]

madala said:

The Deck I think is more of a divining tool, a set of runes that can be tossed to divine the state of play - and in particular - on Wu. It is more finely grained than the Azath having several positions for each House. I really need to dig out the ref to the Deck having been made... before I waffle too much

I think it's more than just a divining tool, otherwise why would new ascendants scramble to be part of a house/create a new one.

As for the Azath being being portals, i think that's got more to do with their multi-dimension/warren/verse existance rather than their prime function.

[madala]

There are the decks, which anyone can buy and use. There is the Deck, which unlike the Tarot, really has Fools, and Hierophants, and Hanged Men. There are the Azath which are doorways (of perception) to the finite(?) worlds contained within the MBotF universe.

So, the deck is an imposition of some form of order on the universe, as are the azath. Thus, similarities, but I also believe significant differences. The Deck is a semi-transient view of the underlying reality, to which Azath are (amongst other things) semi-permanent portals. With very restrictive entry criteria