[Illuyankas]

Yeah, I doubt such emphasis is just a feint for the readers, personally.

[Dark Mac]

Is Udinaas supposed to be Shurq Elalle's son? I've always wondered why Rud's last name was Elalle, and I can't think of anything else that makes much sense.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Wasn't it the name of his adoptive Meckros parents, who died with everyone else in the city. Perhaps they will turn out to have been relatives of Shurq (did the Meckros have any contact with Lether?)

[Abyss]

re: Ruin as blood drinker...

Illuyankas said:

Yeah, I doubt such emphasis is just a feint for the readers, personally.

Interesting... i had thought it was Dejim, but this makes sense. The 'madness' element had removed Ruin in my mind as 'consort', but as i think about it, there are all kinds of ways to go bugnuts... maybe he was just hiding it really well at the end of MT...

Re: 'Ellale', interesting point re possible link tween Shurq and Rud. Unless 'Ellale' is a generic term for orphan or adoptee in Leth/Mekros, like 'Snow' in SoIaF books.

- Abyss, would consider a crazy person under an Azath a 'root vegetable'.

[Ivan the terrible]

I was just thinking about otataral in relation to Krul. If the Warrens are veins, then surely Otataral must be a blood clotting agent. It reacts to close up a wound in the body by stopping the flow of blood or magic. It would mean the deposits of Otataral occur where a diastourous wound has occured. Maybe, this could if this has been brought up before i apoligise

[Dolorous Menhir]

Wow, that's a really good idea, and I've never seen it before. Stick in the Crazy Theory thread quick before someone steals it.

[Ivan the terrible]

My problem is at Morn, why is there no Otataral there is does a soul like a bandage covering and preventing large deposits of Otataral

[Illuyankas]

I'd say so, there was a soul bridging the Rent at the same moment it was formed. Good idea, and unique too.

[QuickBenDelat]

Father Light said:

Righto. Tiam is not the otatoral dragon we see crucified.

here is my evidence... in MT when Feathre Witch is describing the hold of the DRagonon pg 292 she states "The Queen lies dead and may never rise again. The consorth writhes upon a tree and whispers with madness the time of his release".

now the crucified dragon is not dead, while Tiam is expressly stated as being so. so this is point one.

point 2 is that the ref to hanging upon a tree is too clear a ref to crucifiction to be disregarded, hence it is my humble opinion that the crucified otatoral dragon is actually the consort in the dragon hold and not tiam.

Tiam is dead, the consort would be the CG and the offspring is the Otty dragon. This would explain why the dragons are at the heart of everything since ottatoral(sp?) basically negates magic and if u have an otty dragon going through holds and warrens wouldnt that causea alot of trouble like magic going extinct on Wu at least?

[Morgoth]

How could it possibly be the cg? If we accept Abyss' string of logic showing that Tiam probably died following the events of the MT prologue, she was dead long before the CG ever came to the world

[Thelomen Toblakai]

Yeh i always thought that Ruin was Blood Drinker as well.

[Karsa Orlong]

Yes, the discussions going on for putting together the Encyclopedia Malazica (Hetan linked on it somewhere) seem also to suggest that Silchas is Blooddrinker. And my guess as to who the consort could be : Scabby or Osserc (i'm basing this on the draconian tree).
Maybe if she (Tiam) has bisexual tendencies: OD

[Dolorous Menhir]

Draconus is the most popular candidate for Consort, with the O-Dragon second.

[Karsa Orlong]

Isn't Draconus more like the liege? I was under that impression...

[Dolorous Menhir]

Sorry, got my positions confused. Was it the O-Dragon for Consort then?

edit: wait, don't think that's right. can't remember what I said before, in that big thread with discussion of all MT Hold positions.

[Morgoth]

for the last time, just to underline what Hetan said. The OD is female!!! Tiam is female thus it is highly and I mean highly unlikely that the OD is her consort.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I agree, that's why I changed my mind in the edit, getting myself confused here.

I was thinking of this thread here,

http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/showth...81223#post81223

where the positions are discussed, it turns out I couldn't think of a good Consort at the time, and still can't. Definitely don't buy Scabby though, especially with the speculation that he gained his Eleint status from killing Sorrit - which would mean he had nothing at all to do with Tiam.

[Karsa Orlong]

Nothing at all? Well, he slept with her and has a child with her (Sheltatha Lore). And Osserc did that as well (resulting in Sukuhl and Menandore)...so he might be suitable for the position of Consort as well... (I know I might take this too literally...but who knows )