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That's all just speculation FL, we've got no idea what the relationship between MD and everyone else is.
Just to note - Togg & Fanderay are known to be older than the EG's, though not necessarily older than MD (I consider her to be separate from the Elder Gods like K'rul & Draconus).
Also, and it's important to see the difference here, K'rul did not create any of the warrens - he brought order to what was already there. You can't say he is older than any particular warren (except perhaps the human ones) because they are "part of his heart" or whatever.
K'rul didn't create KG or SD.
Tiam/Mother Dark/The Crippled God
#21
Dolorous Menhir 
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Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:06 PM
#22
Father Light
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Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:26 PM
I didin't think he created them as such, more that he took the elemental forces and shaped them channeling them through his "immortal blood". however there has been much speculation that mother dark in fact was the progenitor of the elder gods as well as the tiste peoples.
my reply was intended to show that i recall no evidence to prove this surmise. i still see krul as eldest, who brought shape out of chaos.
my reply was intended to show that i recall no evidence to prove this surmise. i still see krul as eldest, who brought shape out of chaos.
#23
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 25 June 2006 - 05:29 PM
The Draconean Family Tree, though not gospel, suggests MD is older than the EG's.
MoI flat-out states that Togg and Fanny are older than the EG's, including K'rul.
The Elementals, whatever they are, will be older than the EG's.
No way is K'rul the oldest entity in the series. Oldest Elder God, maybe.
MoI flat-out states that Togg and Fanny are older than the EG's, including K'rul.
The Elementals, whatever they are, will be older than the EG's.
No way is K'rul the oldest entity in the series. Oldest Elder God, maybe.
#24
GingerBreadMan
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Posted 25 June 2006 - 07:02 PM
We don't know enough about the Elementals to know that for sure....
The elementals could be Elder Gods....
The elementals could be Elder Gods....
#25
Dark Mac
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Posted 25 June 2006 - 07:14 PM
According to Cotillion's conversation with Edgewalker, Elemental Forces and Elder Gods are the same thing. I see them as all coming into existence at the same time, since they're essentially manifestations of the world itself.
Togg and Fanderay were in Wu for longer than the EGs, but that doesn't mean much, since we've already heard that the KCCM were keeping the EGs out of Wu. They're more likely the same age, in my eyes.
EDIT: I am so dumb.
Togg and Fanderay were in Wu for longer than the EGs, but that doesn't mean much, since we've already heard that the KCCM were keeping the EGs out of Wu. They're more likely the same age, in my eyes.
EDIT: I am so dumb.
#26
Illuyankas
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Posted 25 June 2006 - 08:04 PM
Where did you get that? Kallor only said it was the Elder Gods that were kept away, not Togg and Fanderay. I assumed they stayed in the background, as unimportant as possible.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#27
Father Light
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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:01 PM
Also in ref to my earlier post... in moi it is explicityly stated that krul created the warrens and everyone who uses sorcery swims his immortal blood, oncluding the gods. pg 720 conversation 'tween QB and talamandas.
"he made the warrens after all. we swim his immortal blood- we mages and EVERYONE else who employs the pathways of sorcery including the Gods."QB
"noone knows all that! Noone. how can you?... arghhh." Talamandas
"he made the warrens after all. we swim his immortal blood- we mages and EVERYONE else who employs the pathways of sorcery including the Gods."QB
"noone knows all that! Noone. how can you?... arghhh." Talamandas
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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:35 PM
hmmm.... he created the warrens, but from aspects/sorcery that already existed.. hence Eloth's comment "I am Eloth... A Shaper of the Blood. Everything K'rul asked of me I have done." .. forcing order from chaos.
Lady Envy, to whom that comment was made, is not an Elder God.. whatever warren she uses, her power comes from K'rul's blood.
Lady Envy, to whom that comment was made, is not an Elder God.. whatever warren she uses, her power comes from K'rul's blood.
#29
tiam
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:55 AM
Dolorous Menhir said:
The Draconean Family Tree, though not gospel, suggests MD is older than the EG's.
MoI flat-out states that Togg and Fanny are older than the EG's, including K'rul.
The Elementals, whatever they are, will be older than the EG's.
No way is K'rul the oldest entity in the series. Oldest Elder God, maybe.
MoI flat-out states that Togg and Fanny are older than the EG's, including K'rul.
The Elementals, whatever they are, will be older than the EG's.
No way is K'rul the oldest entity in the series. Oldest Elder God, maybe.
Yes but i remember a a thread that suggested that because the EG were being kept from Wu then to Togg they seemed younger but they actually werent
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 08:20 AM
Thats quite correct tiam... kept from wu by K'chain sorcery iirc.
and yes, Togg and Fanderay are older than the Elder Gods
"They were young entities as far as he and his mate were concerned, and the warren she might have fled to was, in comparison to those of the Elder Gods, ancient."
and yes, Togg and Fanderay are older than the Elder Gods
"They were young entities as far as he and his mate were concerned, and the warren she might have fled to was, in comparison to those of the Elder Gods, ancient."
